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 068 VS 041/Rhoads
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n/a
deleted

483 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2007 :  8:41:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is a very interesting comparision. As many times as I've glossed over the Jim Hand internet section, I never noticed that Jims car only picked up a .15 seconds with the 041/Rhoads set up over the 068 cam.
.




Edited by - n/a on 27 Aug 2008 7:31:50 PM

dennismac
Cochise

270 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2007 :  11:08:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If your car is lighter than a wagon, it should pick up more than the 1.5 mph. I think the rhoades are supposed to increase driveability and not meant to increase performance other than the improvement from the lower end assistance. In my firebird, this set up makes the car more powerful throughout the range over the 041 alone and it idles with the stock converter at about 650rpms. Before the rhoades, with a stock converter, I couldn't get it to idle at less than 1200 rpm and even after replacing the converter, about 900 rpms was as low as it would idle.

I loved the performance of the 041 at 3500 rpm plus without the rhoades, but the rhodaes have definitely helped as far as normal driving plus I still get that "thrown back into the seat" sensation going from 40 to 70 or 70 to 100+ in what seems like a split second. Some day when I have enough money to fix all the parts I know I'll break, I will take it to the track and see what the zero to forty end of the spectrum feels like.
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Brian Baker
Mongo

USA
1050 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2007 :  6:51:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let's keep things in context, shall we? A .15 second and 1.5 MPH improvement in 1/4 mile performance is a substantial improvement when the vehicle in question weighs 4050 lbs. Had the race weight been in the 3600-3800 lb. range where most street driven Pontiacs are, the improvement would have been even greater, provided of course the chassis could plant the extra torque at launch.

Will Rogers never met a liberal.
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WilsToy
Tribal Scout

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2007 :  7:39:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is there a cam manufacturer that matches the Pontiac spec's on these performance cams spec for spec, or do you hunt for NOS cams?

Wil
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dennismac
Cochise

270 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2007 :  8:46:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Crane cams for one has duplicated the original, some use updated versions approximating the grind.
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drobe2
Cochise

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2007 :  10:01:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Try the GM dealer. Mr Goodwrench web site in the past had these cams listed. They have revised the web site and I cannot find the Hi-performance parts section now. All I see is the Chevy. They once listed the T,N,P and S cams and other valve train parts. I don't know for sure but think GM told me the cams were CRANE.
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Brian Baker
Mongo

USA
1050 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2007 :  10:17:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unless you found an NOS cam, in this day and age I seriously doubt that you could get an exact duplicate to what the factory had produced back in the day. Even the "blueprint" cams have been redone with a computer program, and although the opening/closing events, peak lift, lobe displacement, etc. may all be the same as the originals, other areas of teh lobe design have been "refined".

Will Rogers never met a liberal.
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Mr. P-Body
Running Bear

USA
2244 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2007 :  1:30:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mr. P-Body's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wilstoy,

If you MUST have one of those old cams, and MUST have the exact parameters, there is only one true source. As another said, Crane is grinding the "high performance" cams for the Pontiac found in the GM Performance catelog. They are not exact duplicates of the originals. The only ones that really ARE exact, are the Melling "replacement" cams. Those are: SPC-3 = "744", SPC-7 = "068" and SPC-8 = 041. As Melling was the vendor to GM for performance cams during the "muscle car era", they own the masters. These are not clones or copies, nor are they "enhanced".

Then of course, the question arrises: What are you doing, that you need an old design like these? A "numbers" restoration, and willingness to run race gas is about the only place they "fit" anymore.

Jim
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WilsToy
Tribal Scout

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2007 :  5:45:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys I'm sure the updated versions will serve my purpose well.

Wil
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303ta
Tribal Scout

19 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2008 :  6:44:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was told not too long ago that the RAIV cam was the first computer designed factory cam.Anybody know if this was fact or fiction?
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Mr. P-Body
Running Bear

USA
2244 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2008 :  08:54:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit Mr. P-Body's Homepage  Reply with Quote
303ta,

This is a VERY old thread... But yes, it has been said the 041 cam was the first "computer optimized" cam, in 1966. That means very little, as most of the parameters are the same as the McKellar #10 solid lifter grind made for the 421SD program, designed by Mac McKellar LONG before '66. The lift is the only REAL difference. It has been said Mac had a mind like a computer... Doesn't surprise me.

There are MUCH better grinds available today, in the same parametric "range".

Jim
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Steve C.
Crazy Horse

1155 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2008 :  11:35:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Steve C.'s Homepage  Reply with Quote
"Yesterday's Cams, With Today's Technology"

http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0203sr_cam_overview/index.html


"We can do so much more than we did back then. We knew that if we applied today's leading-edge technology to these old, factory muscle cams, we could have the best of both worlds: a series of camshafts that held fast to the original design and intent but with the very latest valvetrain technology."



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drobe2
Cochise

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2008 :  4:39:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
YeaH! I like the Mc #10 solid cam. I thought it was really BAD! I used in back in 1968-1/2 in a 400 CID motor W/670 heads and used the new RAM AIR push rod and rocker when Pontiac came out with the new Judge motor package.
Everyone took notice when I would drive and hear the motor run. The car would turn 12s all day long and drive it back to the Air Base.
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Rocky Rotella
Buffalo

50 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2008 :  6:59:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
303ta, Mac McKellar told me that the 041 was the first camshaft that's blue-prints were generated by computer as opposed to being hand-drawn. He said computer technology was hot at the time, so marketing chose to exploit that, giving the perception that the camshaft was more exact/optimized for a given combination. He reassured that the final 041 specifications were manually chosen based on extensive physical testing.
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Steve C.
Crazy Horse

1155 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2008 :  7:25:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Steve C.'s Homepage  Reply with Quote
nostalgia = a longing for something past or far away

Comp Cams has a series of lobe designs called "Nostalgia Plus" Hydraulics. They are designed to mimic the sound of the great engines of the past while improving performance by applying today's design technics, these profiles are used in our Nostalgia Plus series to capture the essence of the factory muscle cars of the 60's and 70's. These profiles are slightly slowr off the seat than the extreme Energy profiles but have excellent area under the curve for outstanding power.
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NYCNative
Tribal Scout

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2012 :  2:21:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would love to see two exactly identical engines run side by side with the only difference being the cams, one with 041 cam and the other with the 068 cam. I'd love too see what both of these engines would do with the only difference being cams, only? To make it easier, the engines could be both 400 cid.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
2472 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2012 :  4:30:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
both cams were run in high compression engines when hi octain gas was avalable.

Bull Nose Formula, 461, R44TS, DEX/MERC
69 GTO-400/670/373/4Spd
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