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 Headers and No17 heads
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2015 :  11:46:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am buying some hooker headers on Tuesday to try and improve my exhaust situation with the single pattern cam.

My heads are 17s, which means four bolts.

I'm hoping that if I used four super duper locking bolts and a Remflex gasket that it will work.

I figure I'm going to have to lift the motor a few inches. Should I just unbolt the motor mounts or the tranny too?

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.

GtoGuy32
Cochise

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2015 :  11:50:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What kind of car?

I think engine mounts will do just fine. I have removed an oil pan from my engine with the engine in the car, just lifted it a couple of inches in a 69 A Body and left the tranny mount alone.

-Dave
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2015 :  12:26:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yeah just the motor mounds, if needed. the trans mount/crossmember will flex enough to give you the few inches...you only have a few til you hit the tunnel anyways. Watch the Dist! Don't crack the cap!
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2015 :  6:08:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks for the replies,
it's a 69FB,

Most Pontiac heads have six exhaust bolts, but mine only have four. I'm going to try running the headers anyway. Any comments on this idea?

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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GtoGuy32
Cochise

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2015 :  9:42:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Go for it!

Buy 2 or 3 sets of gaskets, because I bet you blow through a few!

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phil400
Cochise

Canada
456 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2015 :  4:32:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't remember who made them, but there was these Brakets made specifically for heads missing the outer bolt holes for people who wanted to put headers.

78T/A 4-SPEED Marty blue 400/milled 6x-4's/268H,comp roller tip rockers/ performer Q-jet/RA manifolds 2.25" exhaust with x-pipe/ mine since '99 3rd & final owner as long as I'm alive
"sometimes I do what I want to do,rest of the time I do what I have to"
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2015 :  6:14:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those brackets are for a 70s head that does not have the boss.

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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phil400
Cochise

Canada
456 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2015 :  7:07:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh ok.

78T/A 4-SPEED Marty blue 400/milled 6x-4's/268H,comp roller tip rockers/ performer Q-jet/RA manifolds 2.25" exhaust with x-pipe/ mine since '99 3rd & final owner as long as I'm alive
"sometimes I do what I want to do,rest of the time I do what I have to"
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2015 :  2:47:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone have a recommendation for header bolts? I have some used (1000 miles) Hooker Ceramic Headers and a Remflex gasket.

Mr Gasket (Allen head): http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-3420G-Head-Header/dp/B001QVWX98/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1432406345&sr=8-5&keywords=header+bolts

Stage 8: http://www.amazon.com/Stage-8900-Locking-Header-Small/dp/B000QDV5P0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1432406345&sr=8-4&keywords=header+bolts

Proform: http://www.amazon.com/Proform-66752-Wedge-Locking-Header/dp/B00BF2Y0EO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432406617&sr=8-1&keywords=header+bolts+proform

or perhaps another type?






69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
410 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2015 :  6:04:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you locked into headers?IMO they are a PITA on a street car.If your going to be racing it every weekend and want the last bit of HP they are fine.The long branch RA manifold on the street are way better.Tom
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2015 :  7:12:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you're going to do something. Do it all the way.



What bolts would you recommend?

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2015 :  10:29:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Man! Forget the mullet, that haircut is a maxxed out sho-lo if I ever seen one!

Regarding header bolts, I've been using stainless 6 sided ARP's with star washers and copper based anti-seize for many years. The center ports are the biggest PIA on headers especially tubes #5 & #6 due to the hard turns right off the flanges there.

I "hang" the header with the first bolt at the front of the motor. Then push the header on finger tightening that hard turn center bolt a few turns as the second one. IIRC the Hookers come with these hard turn bolt bosses "keyholed" so you can place the gasket onto the head and hand tighten the #5 & #6 bolt then rather easily "hang" the header on and start bolting it up. Doug's don't have that design.

As you already know, headers are a real pain to install and you'll have to check and retourque the bolts a few times. I've found the job is a bit easier if you remove the wheels. It's easier to access those tough center ports through the wheel well.

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!
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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2015 :  10:35:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you're heads don't have the outer bolt bosses then headers aren't advisable. Ram air restoration manifolds are a very good alternative to headers.

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2015 :  10:35:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the tip.

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2015 :  10:45:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They have the boss, just not the bolt hole.

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2015 :  10:21:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dont the ram air iron manifolds delete one of the center bolt holes. That would mean only 3 bolts holding on the manifold.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7214 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2015 :  10:58:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you have the bosses, take the time to drill and tap them or don't waste your valuable time and money running headers with 4 bolts unless you like leaks, noise and headaches. Without the bosses the brackets are the ticket.


Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
410 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2015 :  12:48:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bird RAM Air long branch have both center bolts,I will need to look but think they have all 6.The GTOs and gen 2 birds RA manifolds dont have all.Tom
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2015 :  12:59:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So no one has a recommendation for bolts. I think I'll get the Stage 8 ones.

In order to properly tap the heads, the heads have to come off. That's time and money.
I could go redneck, drill and tap the heads with a 90 degree drill, but that would mostly likely end in disaster.

Here's the thing. Who has actually installed headers on four bolt heads and ran them for any length of time? Anyone?
Just because it probably won't work, doesn't mean it won't work. A kickass gasket and locking bolts might just
do the trick.

I've made up my mind and I'm going to give it a try. If it doesn't work, then the heads have to come off anyway. There could be some time lost, 30 bucks of gasket lost, but knowledge gained. After this, there will be a record of the success or failure of this attempt.

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2015 :  10:09:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Many of us ran them and had the leak. The 69 OEM manifolds don't have the front head bolts on my 69 (heads have them, just not the manifolds). I have a small leak on the drivers side due to that, and the motor was cleanly and professionally done. I wouldn't waste time running the headers just because i've already had the issue with the manifold. Just something small that the engineers didn't see as an issue but apparently became one.
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
410 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2015 :  10:24:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most people are wise enough to NOT try and run headers with 4 bolts!Thats why you not getting a lot of help.Bolts are bolts.Tom
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2015 :  1:43:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, thanks for the advice, but I'm still going to do it, because I ain't over 30 yet. :)

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7214 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2015 :  10:40:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd rather pull the heads once and drill the bosses than change header gaskets in perpetuity.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2015 :  12:30:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What do most people do about the oil sending line and headers? I've got almost no room. It's pointed at the passenger side.

Update: I got a 4-inch brass tube that places everything above the frame rail, and dented the header for clearance.


There's not a lot of space (spark plug gap space), but I figure with ceramic coating and the oil flowing through there it shouldn't get too hot.

Well. they're on there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpoNSO4x2N4&feature=youtu.be

For those reading this years from now, I'll sum up my experience of installing Hooker 1 5/8 heads on a 69 Firebird D-Port.

I jacked up the car as high as it would go with my Craftsman jack, and set it on some small HF jack stands. The car did not need to be two feet off the ground; just, safely, get as much space as you can. The motor did need to be hoisted up a few inches.
The driver's side was easier to install. On the passenger side, the middle rear bolt was the most difficult. I used allen-head bolts which made getting a few of them snug easier. In the end I tightened every bolt with a 7/16 Harbor Freight stubby wrench; I did not need to buy or create specialized tools.

The job took all day and then some. I could probably do it in half a day now, but there is a learning curve.

Tip: Like someone already said, remove the distributor cap.
Tip: Cap the studs coming off the A-Arms with a rubber cap like the ones that come in the vacuum cap multi-pack, so that the studs don't scratch the headers where folks can see.
Tip: Remove the Oil Filter Housing. The headers can be installed with it on, but it's easier in the end to just take it off and then put it on after.

I did this job without help from my buddies. And oh ya, I was shaking with rage at times, so be prepared to be ticked off.


69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.

Edited by - 2barrelpower on 09 Jun 2015 9:39:24 PM
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