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 Intake / Carb and Fuel Delivery Tech
 Separated water crossover, small mistake
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2015 :  5:32:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two issues. Oil passage gap and exhaust leak. What should I do to move forward?

http://youtu.be/ygd2-sjqY4Q

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.

Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2015 :  8:40:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the aria at the front of the manifold is connected to the engine crankcase. Remove the intake, coolant crossover, and gaskets. use the complete intake gasket (not separated) on re-installation. Use a small amount of permatex ultra black on the coolant crossover and on the aria in question on the cylinder head side of the intake gasket.

The exhaust crossover can be different sizes (mismatched) on cylinder heads and intake manifolds depending on year.

Exhaust Crossover Port Matchings
With Head- And Manifold- Use Gasket
1965-71 -------1965-71--------- 1965-71
1965-71 -------1972-79--------- 1972-79
1972-79 -------1972-79--------- 1972-79
1972-79--------1965-71--------- 1965-71**

** Use thin sheet stainless steel as a block off plate.

From--- http://www.wallaceracing.com/index.html






Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 24 Apr 2015 8:52:48 PM
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2015 :  9:20:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok, thanks

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
412 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2015 :  9:25:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really have to ask with a street car and that intake WHY did you separate it?Tom
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2015 :  11:41:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why? Because it's something one can do with a Pontiac, and it looks good.

What if it doesn't get a good seal there? Would it matter?

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
412 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2015 :  6:10:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As you found out,not a good reason!Tom
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2015 :  11:05:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have an already separated (painted though) performer intake (not rpm), also have a rebuilt qjet and an e-carb that is kind of dirty but has probably 1k miles on it. Message me if you want, i'd give you a good deal on them. I sold 2 pontiacs to buy one nice 69, and i'm not swapping any parts on that. So, i could let go of some of my stash.
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2015 :  11:48:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I still think it was a good idea based on desired function and aesthetic.

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2015 :  09:44:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You'll be happy you did it when you have a noisy lifter or other issue you want to yank the pan for. You still end up pulling the dist because there's not quite enough room to get he pan out from under the crossover, but still nice not to have to drain any fluid.
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fbird1969
Sitting Bull

170 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2015 :  11:32:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cortcomp

You'll be happy you did it when you have a noisy lifter or other issue you want to yank the pan for. You still end up pulling the dist because there's not quite enough room to get he pan out from under the crossover, but still nice not to have to drain any fluid.



Not to mention that if you didn't plug the water coolant bypass (which I would HIGHLY recommend doing) this makes it a LOT easier to get a good seal there and you never have to worry about tearing it up in the future like cortcomp said
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2015 :  11:45:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I recommend restricting the coolant bypass to .250" on the coolant crossover side for street applications.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 27 Apr 2015 11:50:36 AM
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
412 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2015 :  12:22:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
JMO,WAY easier to drain a radiator than to pull the dist,hope to get it back in on the right tooth and then reset the timing.I have been racing pontiacs and driving on the street for 60 plus years and have not found a reason to separate the Xover on a street car.The juice aint worth the squeeze.Tom
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2barrelpower
Sitting Bull

USA
135 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2015 :  4:18:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting, I consider setting the timing (valve covers off) easier than draining the coolant. To each their own.

69FB, 350P, 9 to 1, Comp 260H, Stock Valve Train, Performer Intake, 1406 Carb, Hooker Headers, Points Style, Crane XRI, Crane PS20, TH350, stock stall, 3.08 gear, and 235/60/15 Firestones.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2015 :  5:27:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
exactly, no way to quickly, easily drain coolant. bonus, i don't have to jack up the car. I can retime a dist in about 2 seconds.. mark the housing and block when you pull it with a sharpie if you're worried. one tooth off doesn't matter, you can adjust that when you're doing the timing.

Normally, you wouldn't need back in. but parts aren't always great today, and i had to swap lifters that were clacky. Twice. Two sets, couple that just wouldn't work.
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
412 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2015 :  5:32:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not just setting the timing,thats easy.Its getting the dizzy back in where it belongs is the PITA
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2015 :  10:55:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If your happy with the orientation of the dist rotor, body of distributor (vacuum can), and available room for adjustment. then leave the distributor where it is

The vacuum can from the factory points to 3 o'clock when standing in front of the car.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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bluebird
Cochise

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2016 :  12:54:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thought about doing the separation trick myself. Not for any other reason than the E-intake coolant crossover doesn't seem to line up correctly. The only thing stopping me from doing so is the fact that there is a torque pattern for tightening the intake bolts, what use it that, if you don't have all the bolts on the same plane to equalize the pressure on the intake? I also found that every intake gasket kit that I've used comes with the exhaust crossover restricter "patch" or a "patch" to completely block it off. I've tried them all and found that my engine runs best with it completely blocked off. I also found that the Edelbrock brand gaskets seem to fit better than the Fel-Pro, due to that fact you don't have to trim the gasket where the valve cover goes on. They also adhere very well to the intake, once heated up from running the engine, without any use of RTV gasket sealer.

"Experience is the best teacher, unfortunately, it's the costliest!"

Edited by - bluebird on 26 Jul 2016 12:55:33 AM
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7216 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2016 :  2:12:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm surprised anyone finds draining several inches out of a radiator to be more of a chore than R/R the distributor. Both of my Firebirds are very low in the front, yet I can still reach under and loosen the drain cock by hand, having a drain pan ready and drop the coolant just below the water crossover elevation.

Regarding the gap at the front of the intake where you separated the crossover, I would consider having some aluminum material added/welded to it and ground smooth at the mounting faces.

I wouldn't be concerned about the exhaust crossover leak on the old intake. Most likely a failed gasket from an previous reinstall of that old intake where the bolts were improperly torqued/tightened.

More importantly, what are you going to do now about your screen name?

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.

Edited by - Phil on 26 Jul 2016 2:15:02 PM
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i82much
Sitting Bull

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2016 :  3:06:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Isn't the fun in owning one of these things swapping the intake every other weekend and taking it out to see how she runs?

Steve
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2016 :  6:47:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Assigning a gender to a car could be politically incorrect.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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i82much
Sitting Bull

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2016 :  9:11:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blued and Painted

Assigning a gender to a car could be politically incorrect.



My car is definitely a girl. There is no way I would have spent that much money on a male car.

Steve
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DanM
Buffalo

80 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2017 :  09:47:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For me, the alignment of the intake runners of the manifold with the intake ports of the head is of primary importance. Gasket matching machine work could make 1/16" tolerances matter.

Theoretically, separating the coolant crossover from the rest of the manifold allows the manifold to be moved backward as necessary to align the ports.

Practically, this may not be necessary and thus the extra strength the manifold provides to the crossover will minimize the chance of a coolant leak especially during 100,000 miles of driving.

So my question to all of you is, "have you found it necessary to adjust the location of the manifold to align the ports?"

71 LeMans Sport Convertible with 310,000 miles driven year round since 1994.
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
412 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2017 :  10:13:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The most important part of the port to align is the roof.Moving the intake 1/16 of a inch forward or backwards has virtually no impact on the roof.JMO,Tom
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2017 :  12:16:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Separating the coolant crossover is easy to do. The coolant crossover flange should have a simi teardrop shape when complete. Leave enough intake manifold flange to cover the crankcase voids in the cylinder head. The exhaust crossover, not so easy. But again, for ease of installation, make sure the voids are covered with the intake flange.

i cut too much of this flange and had to be creative with glue and gasket to install.

http://psp.aquacomp.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5437




Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 03 Jan 2017 12:17:00 PM
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