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 Tempest / Lemans / GTOs
 Hurst Dual Gate and 2004R or 700R4?
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JoshuaD
Tribal Scout

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2014 :  1:03:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone running this setup? Is it plausible? Is it worth doing?

1969 Custom S - My freedom rides on four wheels.

Mr. P-Body
Running Bear

USA
2258 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2014 :  7:33:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mr. P-Body's Homepage  Reply with Quote


I believe "Shiftworks" (if they still exist) offers a conversion for that shifter to the 200 4-R. If you have a Pontiac V8 over 350 CID, don't waste your time with 700... That's what trans guys tell me. It's NOT a small block...(:-

Jim
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JoshuaD
Tribal Scout

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2014 :  11:20:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info, Jim. I do have a 350 in my Custom S, so I guess it's all right(?).

1969 Custom S - My freedom rides on four wheels.
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bigD
Indian Spirit

USA
643 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2014 :  8:46:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are guys now, building these trannys to stand up to 750+ hp, if you don't mind spending about 3 grand for 'em. Some call these stage 3 versions. The 200R4 will bolt up to a Pontiac block without an adapter. I've read that the best 200R4's came in the turbo GN Buicks.

I've read that the 200R4 is about the same length as a TH350 but requires a TH400 crossmember. Can't guarantee any of this info.

This site shows a 750+hp 200R4 and tells about the TV cable you must deal with, if you use either of these trannys.

http://www.cpttransmission.com/2004R_trans.htm

http://www.cpttransmission.com/tech_tvcable.htm

Mo info:

http://www.jakesperformance.com/200-4R.html

http://www.jakesperformance.com/TV_Cable_Setup_Info.html

This site shows an 800hp 200R4.

http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RTRANSMISSIONS.html

Another 800+hp model:

http://performabuilt.com/2004r3.html

A stage 3 rated to 1000hp/850ft lbs torque:

http://www.extremeautomatics.com/transTypes.php


Edited by - bigD on 10 Jun 2014 9:38:14 PM
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JoshuaD
Tribal Scout

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2014 :  8:52:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info, BigD. Most appreciated.

I did end up talking to Herb at Shiftworks and confirmed that they make a Dual Gate setup for the 2004R.


1969 Custom S - My freedom rides on four wheels.
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tpssonic
Tribal Scout

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2014 :  08:43:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a shiftworks 2004R conversion on a Hurst Dual Gate and it works well.
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JoshuaD
Tribal Scout

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2014 :  11:45:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's great to hear, tpssonic. This is definitely something I will be looking into.

1969 Custom S - My freedom rides on four wheels.
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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2014 :  06:59:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TTT
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DanM
Buffalo

80 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2016 :  11:51:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a 200-4R on my 71 Lemans. I upgraded from a TH350.

The transmission cross member is the same it just has to move back a few inches. Fortunately my frame came pre-drilled from the factory for several transmission options so there was already a set of holes ready for the move.

The drive shaft fit with no changes.

I didn't need to make any changes to the shifter. That also swapped in with the same cable and everything. The floor shifter gates and markings work for everything except Low. Park is still park. Reverse is still reverse. D is now OD. 2 is now D. and L is now 2nd. I can't manually put it into low. If I wanted to manually shift to low I would need an adapter on the transmission that is shorter than my bracket. That would make it rotate further for the same amount of cable movement. But then only P and L would line up. all the others would not be correct. I would need an adapter kit for the floor console "gates" to add one more "tooth?". the feel could then be correct but the labels would be off. That would mean I would need a new label plate.

Heck with that.

I chose to have my transmission guy just reconnect everything as before and forgo manual low.

The 200-4R doesn't want to shift into Low if I'm moving much faster than 20 mph unless I put it into manual 2nd (which on my floor is indicated as L) then floor it. This means that if I roll through the toll booth too fast and then floor it, I won't get to take advantage of the low gear. If I roll through the toll booth slowly enough and pre-shift it into 2nd it will then drop down to low. Aside from that one quirk everything is great.

The locking torque converter can be annoying at times. If I'm in the city at light throttle it will shift into OD and then lock at 800 rpm and bog like crazy. The whole car bounces back and forth. I have added a manual toggle switch down by my E-brake that disables the locking TC by disconnecting the 12V power to the TC. So I basically have city mode (toggle switch open) or highway mode (toggle switch closed.)

There are aftermarket kits that do all this automatically but I no longer have the motivation since my switch solves my problem. If I leave the TC unlocked the transmission still works fine in all gears. I just run 200 rpm faster on the highway, big deal.

71 LeMans Sport Convertible with 310,000 miles driven year round since 1994.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2016 :  11:57:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm going through the same right now (and have done the same in others) with 700's. If you are driving in overdrive, and not locking up, the slip is creating more heat. So, you want it to lock. The adjustable vacuum switch in-line to the lockup is the ticket to that "chuggle" issue of lockup, un-lock, over and over. If you're at say, 15 inches of vacuum when it happens, set the switch to disconnect at like 12. Then, it would take more throttle for it to unlock. Just adjust to the point where it will unlock when you want with throttle pedal, away from your cruising vacuum/throttle level. You're really fine-tuning it to your personal driving habits at that point.
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DanM
Buffalo

80 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2016 :  11:59:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After about four months my upgraded 400 destroyed my lackluster 200-4R that I bought from the fly-by-nights in Florida. So I had my transmission guy rebuild it using a lot of heat treated parts from Art Carr and some improved friction material. I spoke to him on the phone several times and it was pleasant every time. I like working with old timers.

At the same time I had my transmission guy install a shift kit. At first it was too harsh so he mellowed it out just enough by using a different spring.

I also selected the speedo gears such that my speedometer is accurate better than 1% ! On the highway 80 mph is exactly 80 indicated and all other speeds are just as correct.

I lost track of how much I spent in total exactly but the complete costs including the original transmission was about $4000. If you pick the right original source it should be half that. Live and learn.

71 LeMans Sport Convertible with 310,000 miles driven year round since 1994.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2016 :  12:53:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Found a local guy who rebuilds street 700's for, no lies, 450 incl new converter. I was skeptical but he has phenomenal reviews and word of mouth. Had it done in like 4 days. I have about 400 miles on it now. Time to do a fluid change/filter change after break in, and hookup the lockup because i do a lot of highway. It has been flawless and shift feels very oem like (what i wanted for this project.) We'll see how long it lasts. Nothing beats cruising down the road without a ton of drone and noise! I'm about 2500RPM at 75ish.
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67drake
Sitting Duck

Azerbaijan
1501 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2016 :  08:42:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cortcomp

Found a local guy who rebuilds street 700's for, no lies, 450 incl new converter. I was skeptical but he has phenomenal reviews and word of mouth. Had it done in like 4 days. I have about 400 miles on it now. Time to do a fluid change/filter change after break in, and hookup the lockup because i do a lot of highway. It has been flawless and shift feels very oem like (what i wanted for this project.) We'll see how long it lasts. Nothing beats cruising down the road without a ton of drone and noise! I'm about 2500RPM at 75ish.



Hell,I'll drive to Ohio if I need a 700R4 done again!
There are people out there like that though. Guys who work out of their garage and do quality work on the side just to keep busy and make a little pocket money.
When I was living down in Waukegan Ill. back in the early 80's I knew a guy that would rebuild a TH350 or 400 for $75. I had him do a few for me,just for daily driver cars,and they lasted until I sold the cars.
I bought a '80 Harley FLH back around '89-90. Looked great,ran,but had an obvious knock in the engine. I figured if it was the top end I could rebuild it myself. Talked the guy down to $2800,which was STEAL back then. Turned out bottom end was bad too. Oh well.
I met a guy who used to work at the Harley factory up here who did bikes on the side. One of those "word of mouth only" guys. He told me if I pulled the engine he would rebuild it for $500 including all parts. A dealer or bike shop would be in the $2-3000 range back then. DEAL! I beat the hell out of that bike,it always ran great.


71' GTO Original 400 M20 3.23 posi
13.95@102.1 MPH on street tires

Edited by - 67drake on 28 Dec 2016 08:46:34 AM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2016 :  10:56:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That's how this guy was...had a platform built into a hitch receiver on the back of an $800 pickup. I lifted the trans for him because he had some medical condition where the bottom of his one leg was GIANT. He waddled around and lifted this and that like it was nothing. Now, was it an amazing job? The paint was OK, i have to do correct speedo gears myself. Basic shift kit, doing lockup kit myself. But that's HALF what i've paid in the past. Again, only about 400 miles on it, but wow, i couldn't pass that up. And, honestly, if it comes apart, a $400 trans mistake is a cheap mistake to make.
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AlsCustomS
Tribal Scout

USA
38 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2017 :  8:42:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,
That trans guy wasn't in Norwalk Ohio By chance?
Been on Caigslist and found a guy rebuilding transmissions that will support higher HP with a 2 year warranty
700R4 $499. with exchange or add $150.for core.

What is the S, in Custom S ?
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2017 :  10:10:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No but you're close to me! He was down in pittsburgh (i'm a little north of youngstown so i could go either way in about an hour/hour and a half). I saw that one on craigslist. sent email, took like a week to get back. Those guys are spamming the CL ads, i see them in like every CL around this area.

This was only just over the 5 mark because i got a new converter. It wasn't amazing work or anything. Someone broke a bolt off in the case and drilled a hole and tapped one right next to it. That's fine and all, but he didn't give me a heads up or anything. Just assumed i knew and put it together. I can't really complain though, he runs a legit business, he gives you a written estimate, and off you go.

If you're in the area, at summit in talmadge, on the bulletin board there is a 700r4 for 100 or 150. No details about condition. There's also a SB 427 pan to carb for only...gasp...7K in the scratch n dent :)
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