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 Stubborn 8 lug won't come off!!!
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2013 :  02:05:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A guy gave me a set of 8 lug rims and tires. They were on a 64 gp. I removed 3 sets but am stuck on one rear drum. Here's what I tried. First, loosened brakes, spins freely, wouldn't come off with pry bars mallot etc. returned a week later with mapp gas torch, PB, applied heat to hub/axel area..no deal. Returned a week later, same process but also removed brake cylinder and was able to release more tension from upper part of shoes. I also punched in 3 of the 5 lug studs and applied considerable heat and wd40 and PB at those areas too. No deal. Returned a week later with a homemade puller made of 1/8" steel. It spanned over whole drum and fastened to opposing 8 lug studs, had the center support drilled and a 1/2" nut welded to underside as to focus 1/2" althread rod to center of axel. Tightened the rod and it it and slowly bent my puller. Returned today with another puller, better design with a slide hammer option added. Tightened it started to bend then used slide hammer numerous times. Then I started to bend the althread. Gave up. Has anyone out there ever run into a super stubborn 8 lug? Also, the shoes a re definitely free. When I pull on the drum it is solidly stuck to axel as it pulls the axel about an 1/8" before it stops. Now I pull my hair out. Uggh. Actually, capital "F!!" ...thanks,Adam

Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2013 :  1:36:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not familiar with the 8 lug set up but an oxy acetylene torch will produce many times more heat. Sharp striking blows near the center towards, then away from the axle hub may brake it loose. Suggest a 32oz. or larger ball peen hammer.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 10 Feb 2013 1:54:20 PM
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cowboy
Buffalo

USA
80 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2013 :  2:49:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got a lot of hubs off with pry bar on one side taping with a hamer on outher side
You could pull the axle then soak in oil
Good luck.
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2013 :  4:10:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How would I pull the axel? Never have pulled an axel on any rear end. Any help imput greatly appreciated. I don't have acetylene torch but maybe could find one. This sucks as the car is over an hour away.
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cowboy
Buffalo

USA
80 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2013 :  6:09:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think there's 4 bolts on the axle tube I don't know if if you can remove them with the drake drum in place or not. The nuts would be behind the drum.
Some one will weigh in that has eperience with that. Rear end. I'm a c clip guy

Edited by - cowboy on 10 Feb 2013 6:33:28 PM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2013 :  9:39:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Are there no threaded holes on the face of these drums that you screw bolts into to push them off while applying heat and hitting the center, with the bolts applying constant pressure?

It's a true friend that gives you a set of 8 lugs!
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  02:46:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can't get at the axel tube bolts with the hub on. And cort, no. The 8 lug set that this is has no threaded holes. The design only gives me the option of a homemade custom puller. Which now ive done twice. Man I've never run into this. It's not the first time I've had issues not being able to crack some old part or bolt free. It happens. But this is rediculous. I think I'll have to just build a stronger puller..1/4" steel channel, and rent an acetylene torch. If it doesn't come off at that point I'm going to return one last time with a six pack of beer, a good hamburger and fries from the local diner. I'll drink my beer, eat my burger, and I'll have a talk with that crooked 8 lug greedy hobo. And end it's life with a splitting maul. Btw, any ideas still on pulling the axel with hub connected? Can I release the axel if I get into the pumpkin? If not, I'm going to turn into a pumpkin. A red one. Thanks all.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  10:51:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't think that axle is of the c clip design, where you can yank the axle by removing one in the pumpkin. I'm pretty sure there's 4 bolts that hold it in behind that drum, that you'd need to remove. Depending on if you can get under it and if you care about the axle or whatnot, maybe you could cut the 4 bolts off from behind the backing plate, under the car, and yank it?
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  11:20:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And there's that darn park brake cable.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  1:15:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It was released.
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  1:21:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess I just keep trying with the approaches I've used but stronger puller and more heat.
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mike389
Big Trees

USA
567 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  2:33:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
had same problem with mine 4 yrs. ago, found that the drum was stuck to the 3" raised boss on the axle! i just checked again being my drums are off the car for new paint! put drum back on and saw studs were against side of lung nut hole and centered them! if you move the drum and hold the stud and find no movement at the drum/axle point keep using lot's of penetrate and big hammer, if using heat get it red hot!! the second point which you have already done is the brake shoe which can be a pain to adjust away from drum!!!! it took awhile but once the drum turns it should work its way off the axle!!! if not find another drum elsewhere!!!
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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  2:48:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Merrik66

I guess I just keep trying with the approaches I've used but stronger puller and more heat.




It would take 5 minutes to pull the rear end cover off to check to see if it's a c lock rear.
If it is it will have a big cross pin centered between the axle shaft ends. The pin is normally held in with a special bolt that I think has a 3/8 inch head. Remove the bolt, drive out the cross pin, push the axles in a bit and remove the C lock. Axle should pull right out.

An issue you might have is getting enough play in the axle(with the brake drum attached) to release the c clip.

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mike389
Big Trees

USA
567 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  3:07:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
there is not a rear cover, at least on my Bonneville! i had to to pull the pumpkin unit out a little to drain gear oil!! there are 4 studs & nuts holding each axle in place at the backing plate!

Edited by - mike389 on 11 Feb 2013 3:19:26 PM
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2013 :  5:23:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah mike, mine does not have a removable cover plate on rear of pumpkin. I'll do as you say and torch the hell out of it. Thanks for letting me know you've been through this before. Really good to know. At least I know you got yours off. For what it's worth that helps. Thanks everybody for chiming in about my issue. -Adam
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mike389
Big Trees

USA
567 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2013 :  02:44:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you might want to try using a 1/2" brass drift pin and use a single jack, i would strike the leading 1/4" edge of the drum that seat's at the axle boss! strike edge all the way around to shock the two dissimilar metals and the drum may brake free!!!!in my 30 yrs as a pipefitter i have seen and tried a lot of these tricks with success!!!!! if you try this please wear safety glasses!!!!!!!!
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7214 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2013 :  09:21:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will the owner let you have the whole axle? May be the best way to deal with this immediate problem and stop the traveling back and forth.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2013 :  11:55:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll try the drift pin with ball peen too..before, during, and after Heat. Hoping to rent a small acetylene unit and try again this next week. The owner of the car wants everything but the hub to stay intact and in place. I'm thinking at this point he's laughing his head off. Btw, the other hub Pulled right off, no effort at all.
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mike389
Big Trees

USA
567 Posts

Posted - 25 Feb 2013 :  12:44:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Merrik66
did you have any luck getting the last brake drum off???
Mike
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2013 :  12:04:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got the freakin thing off today! Hey mike thanks for heads up on more heat and brass drift pin. I installed my homemade steel puller and hit with about 5 min of mapp gas then map and oxy torch for 10. Cranked on the puller. Had a solid amount of pulling tension as threads on the all thread were starting to strip. Hit it immediately with drift pin/ mini sledge many times around axel flange/hub location and near studs. Bearly moved. Cranked again until the all thread against the center of flange was bending. Thought I was going to strip out my puller. Then applied another 5 min of oxy/mapp. Another few hits with drift pin. Cranked on the puller and slowly it came free! Had a good deal of oxidation at center of hub and axel flange. Man...so relieved! Hell, for the time it took I could have bought a set. However, thanks to the experience and mikes advice to use a hotter set up with brass drift pin taught me something. If I encounter that again. It's oxy/mapp torch and set up first thing. It only took about 20 min this round.
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mike389
Big Trees

USA
567 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2013 :  1:33:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
glad you accomplished your project, there are a lot of tricks in the crafts to take care of problems like this! when you reassemble clean up the problem area's with small S.S. wire brush and then med. sand paper then coat with anti-seize!! worked for me being i have removed drums twice with no problem!!!
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Willshire
Buffalo

Canada
92 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2013 :  08:34:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
x2 on the clean and anti-seize. i do it to all aluminum-to-steel mating surfaces!

RIP Pontiac 10/31/10
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2013 :  01:43:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll use that advice as well. Thanks.
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