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74_Formula
Buffalo

USA
92 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2013 :  4:10:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello all. I'm planning on running shorty headers on my car simply because I tried long tubes on the motor I put in previously& it was a nightmare to say the least. Aside from them being a pain to install, they touched the oil filter on one side & the starter on the other side so I figure I can eliminate those issues with shortys. I'm still gonna use a mini torque starter tho but wanted to know if there's much of a difference between performance gains out of shortys vs long tubes. I ran shortys on a 355 sbc & they were good but I know the Pontiac is a whole different animal.

phil400
Cochise

Canada
456 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  10:47:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Which long tubes were you running? lots of guys run hedman 28150 header with great success, even still using the reverse lock out linkage,but i know what you mean when I got my car it had cheapy headers on it, real PITA.

Shorty's will require custom made down pipes,if your seriously considering them, check out ram air manifolds,flow just as well as a shorty but without the header headaches,and PYPES makes downpipes for them,available at summit. The only downside to manifolds is they are much heavier than a header,Ive had the headers on my car going on 8 years love'em.


{I wrote I had headers on my car,I meant Ive had the RA manifolds for 8 years}

78T/A 4-SPEED Marty blue 400/milled 6x-4's/268H,comp roller tip rockers/ performer Q-jet/RA manifolds 2.25" exhaust with x-pipe/ mine since '99 3rd & final owner as long as I'm alive
"sometimes I do what I want to do,rest of the time I do what I have to"

Edited by - phil400 on 17 Jan 2013 6:14:33 PM
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  11:09:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 74_Formula

wanted to know if there's much of a difference between performance gains out of shortys vs long tubes.


From what i'v read there is little to no advantage on a bone stock engine. Engine's with modified high flow heads and preformance camshafts is where long tubes shine.
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0312_headers_vs_manifolds/viewall.html


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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74_Formula
Buffalo

USA
92 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  5:45:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Phil they were just a cheap set & I just ran n2 those RARE headers last night & seriously considering them. Blued the motor is a slightly modded street 406. The RARE pieces look like they will be fairly ez to install, & also look good. I just dnt wanna leave too much power on the table.
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cowboy
Buffalo

USA
80 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2013 :  2:21:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The long tub headers on a daily driver seem to get banged up on the bottom of the tubes from road damage and you lose flow.
I like the ram air 4s
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4793 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2013 :  2:58:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
In my experience (almost 30 years with headers on my TA) lack of clearance was never an issue. I've run 225, 245 and 255 series 15" tires during those years. Never touched a rail road track, manhole cover, speed bump or highway debris. After removing my long tube Hooker Super Comp 4109 headers for the last time after 25 years of use, there were no marks to indicate contact with anything.

Maintenance did require occasional checking and tightening of the header bolts and replacing burned out flange and coupling gaskets. This was not a problem for a "gear head" like me. Installing headers on a Pontiac is challenging though.

Bill


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cowboy
Buffalo

USA
80 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2013 :  3:00:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ram air 4s are round port but there's d port ram air manifolds also.
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74_Formula
Buffalo

USA
92 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2013 :  4:15:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill that sounds real good. I know from trying those longtubes prior that there will definitely be issues or maybe it was just because they were more than likely a low quality brand (they were free so idk wht brand they were). I'm really liking the RA headers & ill have to decide soon because the motor is almost ready to be dropped. Just trying to get a consensus from my reliable source (you guys)

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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2013 :  5:08:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 74_Formula

Just trying to get a consensus from my reliable source (you guys)




Consensus. HaHaHaHa LOL Very Funny.
Sounds like RARE manifolds would be a good match for your mild upgrade combo.
On the other hand lets add up the cost of manifolds, mandrel bent down pipes, hardware kit and gaskets vs. ceramic coated hookers, hardware and gaskets.
Iron Manifolds, an upgrade over logs, heavy, and low or no maintenance
Good headers, slight power advantage at mid range and top end but with some maintenance issues.
Humm. I dont think there is a wrong answer so Let us know what you decide is best for you.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 18 Jan 2013 5:13:56 PM
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7214 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2013 :  5:26:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am usually one of the lone voices that prefers shorty headers to manifolds or even RA manifolds. They perform as good as RA manifolds and I'd rather not have the added weight/ugly cast units. If max. performance is the criteria, (quality) long tube headers can't be beat.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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cowboy
Buffalo

USA
80 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2013 :  7:59:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like the RARE manifold to they have larger outlets and l think aluminum reproductions
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74_Formula
Buffalo

USA
92 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2013 :  9:36:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Decisions........ I kno its a definite weight savings going the shorty route & if they perform just as good as the RARE's it might be feasible to go that route. A decent set is also less expensive than the RARE's. Hmmmmmm.......
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7214 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2013 :  2:49:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Plus you get to use all 6 bolts per side.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Total Jackass
Tribal Scout

0 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  04:36:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ignore this post; I'm a good for nothing spammer.

I'm a first class jerk and don't you forget it!
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7214 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  6:30:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TTT

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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