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 Transmission / Driveline and Traction
 2004r to Th400 and Gear Vendors.
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goatwgn
Buffalo

USA
76 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2012 :  3:31:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Back in 2008 I installed a Th2004r in my '66 Tempest Custom wagon so I could have overdrive. It has a 455 with an 041 cam advanced 4 degrees, and a 3.42 gear. I previously had a Th400 in there all the way back to 1987, at which point it had the 300 2 speed. I know a lot of people have good luck with this unit, I just happen not to be one of them. I broke the front pump back in 2009, it had only been in there for 7 months. Had pump rebuilt with billet rings. Problem solved. Next in 2011, the band anchor pin broke, had whole tranny rebuilt with billet forward drum and anchor pin. Early in June of this year, the band burned up, now it has done it again. Even after all of this, I know the 2004r is a good unit, Phil and some others on here have had very good luck with them. I dont know if I drive the car too hard, or there is an internal hydrulic leak, but for this car, I am getting a GV unit installed , likely next week-having it professionally done- behind my freshened up TH400 with Trans Go kit, and Hughes GM25 convertor. Guess it is too late as I have already bought the unit and commited to it, but do any of you all run this combo, and how does it work for you? I did a lot of research, and for the way I use this car, it seems like a good combo. The 2004r isnt going to be wasted, I am giving the builder as long as he needs with it to sort it out, then I am putting it in my cruiser '74 Olds Cutlass Supreme with a 350.

Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7222 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2012 :  9:18:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did you look at the 4L80? The GV had drawbacks too.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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goatwgn
Buffalo

USA
76 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2012 :  11:00:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thought hard about the 4L80e, But I already had this Th400, Convertor, Etc.I dont plan on using the gear splitter nonsense, just the OD. Beleive it or not, the 4L80e was going to cost me $1000 more than this deal I got on the GV unit, mainly because I was going to have to buy the anolog speedometer tailhousing, the controller, convertor, adapter, crossmember, and parking brake cables, as well as other small items. I will post on here how it works for the OD. Thanks for the input.
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BearGFR
Bear

USA
580 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2012 :  6:23:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit BearGFR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm VERY interested in how this goes for you, goatwgn. I'm considering a GV for my 69 GTO.

Bear
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3409 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2012 :  9:02:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What the heck is a GV?


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2012 :  9:02:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
How much do they cost? with driveshaft cut and all? is it not cheaper to get a 700r4 built (usually around 1k for a local built upgraded one. Dunno how much for a good converter) or for stick, spend 2K on some 5 or 6 speed? I though GV units were like 2500. going to google now.
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goatwgn
Buffalo

USA
76 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2012 :  10:59:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They run about $2300-$2500. The installation is about $650, or you can do it yourself if you have access to a lift. I wouldnt try it in a driveway on the ground. I work at a repair facility, but I have a lot of trouble using the lifts for my stuff, customers keep them tied up- lol. So it was worth it to me to get a custom rod shop that is close by-that is a Gear Vendors dealer- to install it for me. I Got mine for $1700 with a controller, but I got it from someone that was going to put it in a '68 GTO, that never installed it, and got rid of the car for financial reasons. I beleive to get one with the adapter, and controller is around $2500. I have around $2600 in my 2004r, and a 4L80e the way I would want it, with a convertor, crossmember, adapter plate, and controller was going to cost about $4000. Overdrive isnt cheap, but for these old cars at todays cruising speeds, it is a very nice addition. FYI, I worked at a dealer in the early 2000s and I saw one failure after another of the 4l60e (electronic 700r4) behind the 6.0 (and sometimes the 5.7 and 5.3) LS style engines. The way I drive, I dont trust one of those, built up or not, especially behind a 455. I know some people have had luck with the 700r4, and more so the 2004r, but I decided to go this route. Should have the car back in a day or so, I will post how it does.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7222 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2012 :  09:01:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blued and Painted

What the heck is a GV?



http://www.gearvendors.com/

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2012 :  09:36:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We had our local tranny guy (who built my NP440 OD for me and i was pleased) build a performance 700R4. He doesn't make a ton of money off of doing it (and i traded him some computer work) but for under 1K we got a 700R4 that he said would handle 500 ft lbs no problem. We run it in my father in law's 57 chevy truck, warmed up 454 .030 over, 3.43 rear end. We've had it in only a season, but i like the firm shifts, it's a tight feeling tranny, and we've laid on it a bit and i've been happy with it.

To get the 200-4R to the same reliability level, he said it'd cost about $1500-1600.

Jeff: I have a 3.45 rear (and could go to 3.73). My NP440 has a pretty low first gear. in fact, it's almost spot on the 700R4 gear ratios, just stick. At 2100-2200, i'm also pushing 75MPH. To get a nice sounding 2400 rpm, i'm on 80mph. I like the low thrum, but i think i need to recurve my distributor, and maybe minor carb tuning.

I have a wide gear spacing between like 2-3, but i still think it'd be a bit snappier than the TH400 and the 2.56 at the track? I hope it's not that big a deal, i always wondered if setting the car up for cruising will screw me a ton at the track with those wide ratios. Didn't realize that cam would put me at like 11 MPG though :-(
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3409 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2012 :  10:55:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would think you would need a rock solid direct clutch pack if you add an overdrive back box. In stick shift cars you normaly notice slipping in hi gear first. Off topic, who has the best upgrade overhaul kits for a TH400? Monster kits looks interesting.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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goatwgn
Buffalo

USA
76 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2012 :  11:00:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thought I would let everyone know how this worked out- sometimes you have to live something to learn it. After the installation, I discovered I didnt like it. They have a 30 day money back guarantee on it, I will lose the labor, but I will quit while I am ahead. If I already dont like it, it is not going to "grow on me". The driveline angle is off, even though they went up as far as they could without cutting my floor, and I am not doing that. The overdrive is not that much, noticably different than the 2004r. Some of the liveliness at low rpm is gone too, I forgot how much power the Th400 draws, even behind a 455. On the plus side, the shifting is nice with the controller, it cuts on by itself at 40 mph, and cuts back off at about 20. You cant really tell it is there. Pretty smooth. If you were putting this in a car with a bigger tranny tunnel, and a very long wheelbase, it would likely be the way to go. Guess I will be reinstalling the 2004r. I finally found a local guy that will work on it, which is a big plus. The problem before was sending the thing across country everytime I had a problem.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2012 :  11:04:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, if it doesn't work out, let me know, i can hook you up with our tranny guy here in NEOhio...he has done several for guys with big torque cars (one was a street/strip olds 455, another was a worked up turbo buick v6, etc.)
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goatwgn
Buffalo

USA
76 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2012 :  8:18:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks cortcom. I know the 2004r can work and is a lot more effecient than this setup, I just need to get it sorted out. I guess I finally learned my lesson on the gear vendors. Like I said, I think it is a good aplication for some vehicles, just not a 115 inch wheelbase car with a smallish tranny tunnel. I already miss the "cruiser ability of the 2004r, If I could ever get a snappier, clean shift from 1-2, without slippage at high rpm, and make my band last a long time, I would be thrilled.
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goatwgn
Buffalo

USA
76 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2012 :  8:17:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
People want the opportunity to make me happy with the Gear vendors. I will give them the chance I suppose, and let evrybody here know how it finally works.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7222 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2012 :  9:02:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the update Al. It was good to speak with you about this issue over the weekend. Keep us posted.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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goatwgn
Buffalo

USA
76 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2012 :  10:43:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Phil. Nice talking to you as well. I am still going to use my 2004r after I get it sorted out-in another car, but they finally got the issue with the Gear Vendors sorted out. The place that shortened the driveshaft for them, apparantly didnt balance it after they shortened it-not the installers fault. The got it back today, and drove it. Now it is very smooth on the highway. Glad they didn't have to cut the floor. I know balance issues in the shaft can cause problmes, but it was amazing how much of a resonance that one created at speed.
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TexasT
Tribal Scout

10 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2014 :  8:12:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by goatwgn

Thanks cortcom. I know the 2004r can work and is a lot more efficient than this setup, I just need to get it sorted out. I guess I finally learned my lesson on the gear vendors. Like I said, I think it is a good application for some vehicles, just not a 115 inch wheelbase car with a smallish trans tunnel. I already miss the "cruiser ability of the 2004r, If I could ever get a snappier, clean shift from 1-2, without slippage at high rpm, and make my band last a long time, I would be thrilled.



What are you using for the band?
Was the drum checked for diameter, run out and straightness across the band clamp surface?
What are you setting the servo clearance up as?
What servo are you using?
What code valve body are you using?
I'm guessing the 2-3 shift is satisfactory.
What are you using for the boost valve, rev boost valve and spring in the pump?

I would give D. Husek a call at turbo Buick Performance. He can get you sorted out.

Rich
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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2014 :  07:18:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TTT
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