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jeff
Buffalo

USA
93 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2012 :  8:00:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Need some opinions, legal advice would be nice if there are any lawyers in the crowd. I am looking to buy a bracket car and have found a couple that the sellers do not have titles for. Is this common? Good idea/bad idea?

73 Formula 72 T/A clone 406 #12 heads, Comp 280H, RPM intake,hooker comp. headers, Scorpion rockers 4spd. 3:42 gears

Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2012 :  07:18:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff--
In 1968 I found a 57 Chevy Wagon missing an engine and transmission in a local junk yard. I bought the car for $50. It came with no paperwork other than a bill of sale. This chassis was slated to become a full time drag race car. After campaigning it for two full seasons two us sold our interest out to the remaining part owner. He ran it for a while and then applied for a title through the DMV. It was eventually titled in his name, registered, tagged and sold to another one of our friends for street use.

Many race cars, in my opinion, that are built from scratch, may have the same background to them. What you need to know is how did this vehicle come into being--what's the background? There should be a bill of sale somewhere. Selling a vehicle for street use may legally require (in your state) full documentation--Bill of Sale that is notarized, along with title being turned over to the new buyer by a seller who has the car title and registered in his name. The amount of the purchase should be reflected in the bill of sale. This is to evidence the fair price paid. No ticky-no washy. All paperwork is transferred at the time of full payment with the taking of physical possession of the vehicle. Don't do it any other way.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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67drake
Sitting Duck

Azerbaijan
1501 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2012 :  09:08:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm no expert,but I think it's common for race cars to not be titled if they are not also street driven.


71' GTO Original 400 M20 3.23 posi
13.95@102.1 MPH on street tires

Edited by - 67drake on 23 Aug 2012 09:10:05 AM
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jeff
Buffalo

USA
93 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2012 :  09:14:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hopefully they have a bill of sale from there purchase.
Thanks!

73 Formula 72 T/A clone 406 #12 heads, Comp 280H, RPM intake,hooker comp. headers, Scorpion rockers 4spd. 3:42 gears
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RayK
Cochise

USA
925 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2012 :  10:20:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if you EVER plan to put it on the street, don't buy it. I'm dealing with a no title situation here in Ohio with a 1974 Hurst Olds I bought about 7 years ago. The state absolutely will not deal with it. I have to figure out a way to get it done, and there are legal ways, however, all roads I have looked at go nowhere especially if I ask the state of Ohio BMV.

1969 Firebird 461, #62 iron heads, Comp roller, Performer RPM, Q-Jet Turbo 400 w/ Continental converter. GM 8.5" 10 bolt with 3:73 gears.11.50's@ 119+ MPH
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2012 :  10:27:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ohio is THE WORST STATE for dealing with this. I had an imported bike that was imported into a state that doesn't issue titles for older bikes, and i went through a lot. This state does not like any situation that is out of the norm of buying a car from a car lot or with an ohio title. A friend in our club bought an old fire truck from a city that never got a title. Had to hire a lawyer to get the state to issue one. Then he passed away shortly after :(

Basically, you need to get a lawyer and the HWP will inspect it to make sure nothing is stolen (like, really go over it) and document it, and you'll need some proof of who you bought it from, and the lawyer will start tracking down previous owners, etc and take their accounts of who they sold it to, and then he'll basically compel the state via court to issue your title. There are avenues available for these things, but the BMV isn't obligated to help you, and you can't make them follow the rules. A lawyer can though.


The BEST thing to do, is hire a private investigator for cheap, and he can find the last registered owner of the car. That person can go to their DMV, and for cheap get a new one made with only their ID. Then, that person owns your car legally, so better have a nice deal setup, they can sign the title over to you. I usually offer someone $100 to do that in these situations, it's worth it to them to get off their butt and go to the title office relatively soon.


ALSO, you can declare it abandoned, and when no one claims it, you can go get it back from the salvage yard for $100, but you're admitting it's not yours at that point, and they could keep it or someone could claim it that has record they own it.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3405 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2012 :  12:55:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had to complete 3 forms + a Vehical and VIN inspection to bring in an out of state vehical to Colorado WITH A SIGNED TITLE AND BILL OF SALE. OMG. THEN PAY SALES TAX ON A 43 YEAR OLD CAR.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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RayK
Cochise

USA
925 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2012 :  2:11:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Long story short, I talked to the previous owner who's name the title is in, and at first he agreed to go with me to get a new title for it. I did offer to pay him for his time and he refused saying that as long as he knew the car would be in good hands he would do it. Fast forward two months and he told me the car is still in his name and he could take it anytime he wants to according to the law, "but I'm not a dick and I won't do that to you" is what he said. So then tells me to give him a couple weeks and give him a call again so I did, and he never returned any of my phone calls. So the "dick" part became true. Anyhow, I also talked to three different attorneys, to which I was told they have no idea what I was talking about and to just get rid of the car because it's more of a pain in the ass then it's worth, yada yada yada..........I beg to differ. It's one of 180 built that year and I am NOT going to give up.

1969 Firebird 461, #62 iron heads, Comp roller, Performer RPM, Q-Jet Turbo 400 w/ Continental converter. GM 8.5" 10 bolt with 3:73 gears.11.50's@ 119+ MPH
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2012 :  2:20:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
How did you pay for the car? do you have a receipt or bill of sale or canceled check? If so, he CAN come with a sheriff and take the car, and the sheriff will tell you to take him to small claims and use the receipt as evidence. If that happens, that's ok, remember, the sheriff doesn't decide cases on the spot, he follows the law. The law is it's his car right now, but you have a civil claim against him IF you can prove you paid for it.
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RayK
Cochise

USA
925 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2012 :  07:14:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bought the car from a friend who bought it from the second owner, so basically a bill of sale is all I have from my friend. The bitch of it is, I paid my buddy for the car, THEN when I went to remove it from his property he casually informed me he lost the title, which was signed and notorized over to him, but it's gone. This is my dilema. I have a signed statement from his power of attorney that states what I paid for the car and what date I paid him for it, but i'm not sure how far it would go.

1969 Firebird 461, #62 iron heads, Comp roller, Performer RPM, Q-Jet Turbo 400 w/ Continental converter. GM 8.5" 10 bolt with 3:73 gears.11.50's@ 119+ MPH
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Total Jackass
Tribal Scout

0 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  04:43:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Q. Why don't they serve chocolate in prison?
http://www.dressthree.com/

I'm a first class jerk and don't you forget it!
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  6:38:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TTT

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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bigD
Indian Spirit

USA
643 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2014 :  02:37:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RayK

Long story short, I talked to the previous owner who's name the title is in, and at first he agreed to go with me to get a new title for it. I did offer to pay him for his time and he refused saying that as long as he knew the car would be in good hands he would do it. Fast forward two months and he told me the car is still in his name and he could take it anytime he wants to according to the law, "but I'm not a dick and I won't do that to you" is what he said. So then tells me to give him a couple weeks and give him a call again so I did, and he never returned any of my phone calls. So the "dick" part became true. Anyhow, I also talked to three different attorneys, to which I was told they have no idea what I was talking about and to just get rid of the car because it's more of a pain in the ass then it's worth, yada yada yada..........I beg to differ. It's one of 180 built that year and I am NOT going to give up.



Sorry for not posting sooner, but I just missed this I suppose. A Pontiac friend of mine just got a title for his '69 Bird. It seems that different states have different laws concerning car titles. So unless they have recently changed the law, Alabama is the state with the easiest laws.

My friend found a friend who knew somebody who lived in Alabama. All my friend did was make out a bill of sale for the car to the guy in Alabama. He took the B of S to his DMV and got a title to the car in his name. Then he took the title and filled it out to my friend, just as if he had gone to Alabama and bought the car. Then my friend took the signed and notarized title to the LA DMV, paid the appropriate taxes and fees, and got a LA title to the car in his name. The whole deal only cost him a couple of hundred bucks.

The only possible problem I can see with this is if the registered owner decides to report the car stolen. So start lookin for people you know with connections in Alabama. If you think the guy might try to get the car back, at least do like a guy I know did with his '69 GTO right before a divorce settlement. He took everything that would unbolt from it and sold it to me. All that was left was the hull, with the vin number on it--which his X let sit in the dirt and rust down.
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RayK
Cochise

USA
925 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2014 :  7:45:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Man that's illegal as hell. LOL..........Although I'd be a liar if I said I didn't think of doing it. Actually, I've come to grips with it and I'm going to part the car out. I hope that one day I run into the previous owner and let him know that HE is the reason the car no longer exists. He absolutely adored the car and made sure he told me how rare and special that car was, Oh well. I'm tired of the fight.

1969 Firebird 461, #62 iron heads, Comp roller, Performer RPM, Q-Jet Turbo 400 w/ Continental converter. GM 8.5" 10 bolt with 3:73 gears.11.50's@ 119+ MPH
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