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 Dougs Headers Don't Fit
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2012 :  11:53:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tried installing a set of D-590 headers. The passenger side fit perfect. The driver side won't go on at all. The pipes hit the top and the side of the frame rail. Not even close to going on. Looks like the flange angle is wrong. Summit Racing is kind enough to send me another set to test. My old Hooker Comp header fit this side perfect when I threw it in. What the H?!!

Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2012 :  2:48:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Clint & I talked about this issue at length over the phone. We have the same car and heads. My set of Doug's for D-ports were purchased in '01. The main fitment issue for me was also the driver side middle 2 primary tubes straddle the lower control arm frame bracket and needed to be flattened some. The #3 tube was pushed in a little and the #5 tube was flattened a lot to clear the bracket. That was the main issue during the install. An other thing to note is that the factory control arms are close enough to make contact with the headers if your motor mounts become worn. I noticed this after removing them to get them coated while the car was down during the engine rebuild. I'll post some pics when I can get my car road ready and get it up on my friends lift. I'd love to hear other A-body owners experiences with Doug's or other brands. I will say that I've only tried Hooker supercomp's and Doug's on my car, Doug's fit better and have better collector ground clearance.

Clint's problem is serious, one of the middle tubes are hitting the frame itself near the brake junction block.

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!
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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2012 :  6:10:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
The main fitment issue for me was also the driver side middle 2 primary tubes straddle the lower control arm frame bracket and needed to be flattened some.


My Hedman 1-3/4 tube FBody headers hit in the same place on my Firebird. I trimmed the bracket for clearance.

I know it's not an A-Body but you are not alone. Cue the theme from the Twilight Zone.

I need a picture to understand this:
quote:

The driver side won't go on at all. The pipes hit the top and the side of the frame rail.

Edited by - bnorris_74 on 27 Apr 2012 6:15:57 PM
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2012 :  10:05:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Near impossible to get a picture. It appears to me the angle of the head flange is off. The pipes hit the frame just in front of the brake block, while I can put my fist between the pipes and the starter. The angle of the head flange shifts the pipes out towards the wheel one inch further than my old Hooker Comp headers

I haved talked to Dougs tech people several times. They are checking the production floor for jig problems. I don't expect much from them though. Looking back through the PY forum, it looks like this has been an issue for years.
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BearGFR
Bear

USA
580 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2012 :  12:18:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit BearGFR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dang, hate to hear that. I realize this doesn't help much, but you could swap to a set of round port E-heads and then run Doug's round port headers --- they fit ok :)

Bear
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2012 :  8:47:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So after two sets of Dougs I had the same problem. Their tech department has yet to get back to me with any answers. I returned both sets back to Summit Racing. They were happy to take them back, and even paid the return shipping.
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mattg7890
Tribal Scout

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2012 :  02:10:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bought a set of Doug's D-567 roundport headers for my 69 GTO.The driver side header flange is tilted up and outward so the collector hits the crossmember. The passenger side header has #6 cylinder tube on the control arm mount and bolt head. I am not sure what to do. The tech dept. didn't return my call. I am thinking of trying to bend the tube since it looks like there is a gap between the other tubes where this one should be. Maybe I will try Summit but I bought the headers last July.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4793 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2012 :  07:35:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There is a lesson being learned here about Doug's headers, and that they are not as good as claimed. The fit problem really damages their image IMO.

Luckily, for me, headers last a long time. My Hooker Super Comps were installed in 84 and replaced in 2008. The replacement Heddman ceramic coated headers should last that long, if not longer.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2012 :  08:58:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The single biggest reason i went with RA manifolds was the fit issues. Even with good headers, you're removing back drive linkage, or having clutch rod clearance issues, or something is too close to it getting burnt, etc, etc. Plus, i like the hidden look of the RA manifolds.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4793 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2012 :  09:08:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My first header endeavor was with our 57 Chevy Wagon (race car). They bolted up without any problem and had no fitment problem. The next set was on my TA. No 4-speed linkage problems whatsoever. The only issue was the primary tubes prevented me from removing and installing the standard oil filter. There was inadequate room to pull it out. A minor issue was that Mr. Gasket header gaskets had a short life to them. Fel-pro were better, by far, but still had a limited life to them. With cast iron exhaust manifolds, gaskets last a very long time.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2012 :  2:39:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
After hearing all of Clint's issues with 2 different sets of D-port Doug's I realize that there must be a inconsistencies with thier product to say the least. Clint's problems and now mattg7890's, are significant enough that the manufacturer should really pounce on this, get to the bottom of this, and of course fully refund the buyer if they can't deliver a satisfactory product. I never had any major problems with these or Hooker's other than having to flatten and ding a couple tubes near the control arm frame mount area on the driver side mainly and minor clearencing on the passenger side. But as I said before, the Hooker's tubes and collectors come down so low that they would scrape on railroad tracks and speed bumps.

Personally, I love the sound of headers especially with a mean cam. Add the performance gains to the mix and the positives out weigh the negatives.

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!
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mattg7890
Tribal Scout

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2012 :  3:32:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not sure about any changes to Doug's but I know they are owned by Pertronix now. I know they are not Doug. Could be the classic big company buys little company then quality suffers? I understand headers can be a pain to install but to ignore customers is not acceptable. Voice mail when calling tech line and 48 hours to respond to e-mails. The voice mail was after I got to hold for 10 minutes. One of the guys at work spent 5 1/2 hours fitting his headers. I believe it was for a 65 GTO hardtop. I am not sure which brand. If I had known I was going to have to go through fitting my own headers I could have bought the non-coated headers. I do not want to mess up the coating. Or next time maybe I will just have a custom set made for my car. As much as it is costing me anyway what is a few more $$$$$$$$. I am not doing this to get my money back if I ever sell. That would be impossible.
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2012 :  10:39:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It was frustrating trying to deal with Dougs people. I had to shell out another 700$$$ to get a set of Hooker Super Comps sent out. This set fit very well. A little brake block heat deflector and trans line bending worked well. The back drive linkage was no problem. Bolts are no fun to get in though. I did get my money refunded with no hassle.
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mattg7890
Tribal Scout

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 21 May 2012 :  12:07:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe I will get a set of bare Hookers. Fit them and have them coated.

Edited by - mattg7890 on 21 May 2012 12:13:47 AM
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 21 May 2012 :  10:09:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seem like hooker sets the standard. I was told 30 years ago, if you want a set of pipes that fit, buy hookers. Hard for a johnny come latley to beet a reputation like that. But since i don't live on the ragged edge, i'll stick with cast iron ram air's.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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mattg7890
Tribal Scout

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2012 :  03:40:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will see about the Hooker headers. Ordered a pair yesterday. Either way I will have some expensive paper weights. Hooker tech states that I don't have to change my z bar like the Doug's so that is a plus. Lesson learned.
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2012 :  8:43:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Hooker Headers aren't coated as well as the Dougs were. If you have the time I would buy uncoated.
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67drake
Sitting Duck

Azerbaijan
1501 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2012 :  8:52:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good plan Matt. I bought a set of Jet Hot coated headers years back,I think Hedman was the brand,then had to put a ding in them to get them to fit. I was not happy. I sent them back after fitting to be recoated. What a PIA. That is why I also run the RA manifolds.
If I were to go with headers again,I'd go bare,THEN have em coated.


71' GTO Original 400 M20 3.23 posi
13.95@102.1 MPH on street tires
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mattg7890
Tribal Scout

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2012 :  2:44:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Clint I learned my lesson this time. I did buy uncoated so I can tweak them and have them coated after. I am fitting them as I write this. Been at it for a few hours. Doug's fit easier on install but the Hookers look to clear the z bar area better.
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Christ
Howling Wind

USA
1808 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  3:40:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mattg7890

Clint I learned my lesson this time. I did buy uncoated so I can tweak them and have them coated after. I am fitting them as I write this. Been at it for a few hours. Doug's fit easier on install but the Hookers look to clear the z bar area better.





I never had a problem with the hooker super comps. They seem to always fit.


Wonder how old Doug is?
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69warbird
Tribal Scout

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  01:23:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've got doug's headers on my firebird. They fit up just fine. Great ground clearance. However there were some minor clearance issues with the steering system, and now i have a sharp gash in one of the primary tubes thanks to a ball joint. Luckily this did not puncture the header tube. Also the #8 cylinder exhaust port leaks even with the thick gaskets supplied by doug's, new header bolts, and even after i slipped in a section of another thin steel gasket (from a fel-pro engine gasket set) to double up the seal...can't really blame doug's for that one but still frustrating. I was really hoping the thicker flanges and better gaskets would solve that.
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  9:37:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have noticed at shows this summer the round port version fits/clears much better than the d ports
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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2012 :  02:30:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know what brand mine are (garage sale find) but it sounds like i should hope they're not Doug's! I've got a 66 big body. Probably going to buy mini starter from the get go.
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Taman
Red Bird

USA
844 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  8:42:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
bill the oil filter problem I solved by using a filter for a 1979 TA with a 403 Olds engine. Filter is a little thinner and gives the clearance needed to clear the headders

Everything Under The Sun Is Intune
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Total Jackass
Tribal Scout

0 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  04:07:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Q. What did the stamp say to the envelope for fun?
http://www.shoesfloor.net/shoes-sandals.html

I'm a first class jerk and don't you forget it!
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7214 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  6:29:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TTT

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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68Firebird4005spd
Tribal Scout

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2017 :  5:15:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First timer here, i also have a set of dougs on my 68 Fbody.

i installed the headers first, such a pitta....then a year later i installed the front ride tech with tru turn system. i have to cut out one of the tubes to make them fit then will have to go back in and fabricate something. Wishing i would have gone with my gut and just done the RARE setup.

Christopher

1968 Firebird 400 TH400
3rd owner all Original
i'm here to learn all i can
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2017 :  12:36:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome Christopher
RARE vs header. Really depends on cam and combo.
There is an old article on the topic. Some say its not apples to apples.
- http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp-0312-headers-vs-manifolds/


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 02 Mar 2017 12:37:10 AM
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DanM
Buffalo

80 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2017 :  3:27:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The problem isn't the Doug's headers. It's most likely to do with your engine mount being worn out. Get a fresh one, a set of shims and all your problems will go away.

(And you'll be taller, smarter, richer...)

P.S. I am not in any way associated with Doug's headers and am not an investor. Just someone who suffered pain and figured it out.
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