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 Separating water crossover
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2011 :  4:48:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm having a hard time finding a detailed discription or close up pictures on separating the water section of the intake. Im concerned about the L shaped opening on the cyl head open to crank case. Should I just use my artistic flair and extra silicone sealer. Any input is welcome.

[/red] Thanks Ye Old Webmaster


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 18 Jan 2012 1:22:06 PM

bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2011 :  5:45:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Like this?

http://psp.aquacomp.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3641

I don't understand the L shaped part and the crankcase reference though.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2011 :  5:59:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The L shaped hole does go down into the valley area i believe, so it could vent crank gases BUT if you look at the third pic down at the top of that thread bnorris linked, you can see the gasket covers that hole anyway, and even though you cut the manifold, whats left of the flanges still pin the gasket tight against that. I did the same mod with my edelbrock performer, and plan the same with my performer rpm. I don't recall the L shaped holes being an issue at all after the gasket was on, and no one doing the crossover mod, in my memory, has ever talked about oil or oil mist leaks in that area. When it's all said and done, where the intake and crossover touch the head, there just isn't that much removed.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2011 :  6:05:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's my results....after all this trimming, at the flanges, there was still very little gasket that didn't have metal pressing into it to seal that passage against the head, and i took a lot off.





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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2011 :  12:51:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, you guys always come through. Tool tips are always good. The first description I found said to use a blow torch. Mabey effective but a bit to much heat for me. I will leave enough flange to satisfy my conserns. Now I just need to talk someone out of a pre EGR intake without much sentimental value. Found some on E-bay but would like to keep it in-house. Mine seems to be missing from storage shead. 670 and 66 heads are still there. Humm! Can be reached at dado5826@yahoo.com


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2011 :  12:55:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sucky thing about stock intakes is this shipping weight/cost. I used a sawzall blade that's smoother metal with like black grit glued to it to do the cutting, not teeth. Then cheap $30 angle grinder. Finished some rough spots with a file. After paint, they look pretty good.

I would recommend gasket matching the water crossover too, i've noticed some (mainly aftermarket) holes are A LOT smaller than stock.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2011 :  3:40:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cort, It looks clean and well thought out. But that brass thing on the water side looks like it came off the kitchen sink.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 07 Dec 2011 3:52:43 PM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2011 :  3:54:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
LOL that's the autolite temp sending unit
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sixt8bird
Chief Many Horses

USA
1114 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2011 :  8:38:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit sixt8bird's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Heres a simple modification that I did with a hand grinder, a drill and a hammer and lots of WD-40 and lots of sand paper all the way up to 2000 grit. Most of all, lots of elbow grease.











































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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2011 :  11:10:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I love what you did to that RPM Steve, grinding away the crossover must of took a while! It's worth it and it looks excellent atop some aluminum heads. Cort's ain't bad either for the stocker factory look.

B&P, be sure to mark your cut with a sharpie and use a fine toothed sawzall blade like you'd use to cut steel pipe. Keep a steady-slow hand so you don't end up with a angled cut. Then dress the sharp edges with a grinder and smooth out the rest so it doesn't look like it was hacked off like a caveman. Cutting back the casting area between the crossover and the intake itself takes the most time.

The Victor like the one I did is about as easy as it gets. I decided to have mine powder coated like my alum valve covers.






Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!

Edited by - Chicagogoat on 07 Dec 2011 11:17:23 PM
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Christ
Howling Wind

USA
1808 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2011 :  11:37:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You guys have way to much time on your hands.
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js292
Sitting Bull

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2011 :  09:48:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Besides not having to open up the coolant system when swapping intakes, what are the other benefits for doing this?



71 Formula 455
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2011 :  10:29:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
and not having to drain coolant if you're hyper worried (like me) and want to pop the valley cover to inspect cam lobes or change a lifter. Also, less heat from the crossover bleeding over to the intake and pre-heating the aire charge even more on longer drives. Loose some un-needed weight. When you tighten down the front bolt to the water pump, it moves the intake forward and mis-aligns the intake ports. this eliminates that as well. Port matching the water crossover holes helps with flow across it, and makes it flow through the crossover better like a stock intake.
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js292
Sitting Bull

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2011 :  10:47:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks for the explaination



71 Formula 455
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2011 :  12:08:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sixt8, Looks like 50+ hours labor of love. Im glad we have this forum to document good tec tips. Hopefully My kid can get me geared up to post pictures.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2012 :  1:18:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Recieved a 1972 pre egr cast iron intake manifold thanks to Chad at http://myworld.ebay.com/hurricaneautoexport/?_trksid=p4340.l2559 . Shipped at cost and reinforced packaging for free. I have a donor water crossover off a broken aluminium intake. I'v gone from 42 to 31 lbs. removing stuff i dont need. Question, is there any reason to save the bolt bosses on the passenger side of the intake. The A/C compressor is a Jap conversion that all bolts to the front of the head. The car will now be egr delete. Thanks-B&P-


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 18 Jan 2012 2:24:39 PM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2012 :  1:34:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't think there's anything that bolts up front there if you're using a different ac bracket. Even that odd rear later alternator support bracket doesn't seem to touch those.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2012 :  2:55:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My interpetation of an iron intake for a street car. Special thanks to bnorris, Chicagogoat, sixt8bird,cort

Thoughts after the fact. Don't remove the exhaust crossover unless the matching Cyl Head exhaust crossover has been filled with aluminum or has a functioning heat stove for carb.
Cutting the center divider will give more top end power but will compromise idle quality with a performance camshaft.
Dont remove extra material between water crossover and intake. Note position of crancase void and avoid cutting intake in the corresponding aria..







http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/BluedandPainted/marksmotor042.jpg





Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 19 Aug 2015 12:02:45 PM
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2012 :  2:58:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Also cortcomp, Jim Hand and Sammy Sammy


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 19 Jun 2012 2:59:33 PM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2012 :  3:08:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
for a split second, i thought that was a pic of my motor a day ago!

I just split my performer RPM, paint is drying, will take a pic. Last time i split my regular performer, still have it to go back on 428.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2012 :  4:03:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But there's no paint on my crank flange and I got that good Helper, Sammy


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 19 Jun 2012 4:05:24 PM
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2012 :  4:10:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had sammy watch the one bank of pistons as i turned the crank. You should have seen the look on her face. She got it.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 19 Jun 2012 4:31:53 PM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2012 :  5:06:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There IS paint on my crank flange :(

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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2012 :  8:58:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
no little helper (other than my older dog laying on the concrete napping) but here's some pics of progress. Waiting on lug nuts to roll it out and wash it and turn it around, and mitymounts to put it in. Hope to break in this weekend. One shot of the crossover i did this last weekend.



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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2012 :  10:21:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nice work on the intake B&P. Your motors are looking great and almost finished. Its great when you can share the passion with the young ones and pass the bug on to the next gen. This has turned out to be a good comprehensive thread.

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2012 :  12:24:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Cgoat. That iron was tuff. I might have 20 or more hours in it including ports and runners. I cut the divider with a straight carbide burr and a router


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 20 Jun 2012 12:32:05 AM
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2012 :  12:27:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks good cort. Those sure are some fancy bolts in that thing.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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rad400
War Paint

USA
1251 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2012 :  07:19:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks real nice Cort.

Conrad
79 Trans Am 400 auto Crower 60210 Torker II Holley 750 vac sec. #12 heads,3500 stall.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2012 :  09:20:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys! If it doesn't run, it should at least look good right?

B&P, one thing i don't mine paying for is new fasteners....i've pulled some rust and pitted bolts out of these couple projects, and i can't stand not being able to just thread them in and torque them down without worrying about stripping the heads or threads. I'm kind of liking the black hardware on blue motor look on this car. The 428 is going to be matte or semi gloss black with stainless bolts, even the carb, with silver or gray linkage and hardware, and finned valve covers and air cleaner, also black with silver fins to match the bolts. Going in to the 50 chevy i'm making look like a police car.

A theme along these lines:


Edited by - cortcomp on 20 Jun 2012 09:23:49 AM
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2012 :  10:01:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My bolts will be painted blue.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2012 :  7:17:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Steve C. for donating the coolant crossover.

Pic shows installed restrictor at bypass to timing cover drilled to .250



Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 19 Aug 2015 11:42:52 AM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2012 :  9:14:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Is there a reason/benefit bypass is blocked off and do you pipe plug the part in the timing cover too or dead head it into the plug?
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2012 :  11:10:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The bypass was already tapped when i recieved it. So of course i started thinking . It's hard to see but there is a .250 hole drilled in the old square drive oil galley plug. Just thought I would restrict the bypass and recycle some parts.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 16 Jul 2012 11:12:46 AM
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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2012 :  6:56:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
B&P
Nice job on removing the exhaust crossover. That's on my list of stuff I want to do to mine.

All you others with the polished intakes suck. LOL J/K They look fantastic.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2012 :  9:52:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks b, I spent to much time trying to cut it off in one piece. To much inner workings near the plenum.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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BKS
Tribal Scout

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2013 :  12:14:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The intakes all look great but on the intakes where you cut out the exhaust crossover how do you seal the head side?

Brian - 69 GTO HT
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2013 :  09:20:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Either filling the head with aluminum, or using a block off gasket and a thick (i think like 1/2") metal plate that the two bolts on the other side hold down, effectively looking like the intake flange just continues from rear to front except for the lines where the plate meets the intake on it's edges.
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Total Jackass
Tribal Scout

0 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  04:12:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm a spammer ignore this entry.

I'm a first class jerk and don't you forget it!
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7216 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  6:17:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TTT

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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GtoGuy32
Cochise

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2016 :  11:13:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone have any images of a Torker II with a separated water cross over? I am considering it for my engine, but want to get an idea of how it looks prior to cutting it up.

Thanks

-Dave
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2016 :  11:36:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
cut the water crossover so the water inlet from head looks like a semi teardrop. Dont remove to much material so the void aria of the cylinder head (iron head) is still covered by the air fuel runner flange. Dont know if this applies to E-heads.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 22 Jan 2016 11:37:38 AM
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2016 :  9:12:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Torker 2 cut up like this. Looks a lot like a short Victor. I would send pics to a private email if you would like.
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GtoGuy32
Cochise

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2016 :  10:24:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by clintww

I have a Torker 2 cut up like this. Looks a lot like a short Victor. I would send pics to a private email if you would like.



Hi Clint, I separated my Torker II already, but would love to see how your turned out. Please do send over.

Thanks!

-Dave
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