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rshell59
Tribal Scout

6 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2011 :  12:39:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am going to do as much on my 75 TA as possible myself. I like to read a while about the subject before I jump. I am wanting to sand my car down to metal to see if any surprises await me. What grit do I start with or do I go with a stripper. I am not in a big hurry so speed is not an issue.
Thank You
Bob

Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2011 :  5:28:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bob--Sanding is a time consumer as well as dusty/dirty. The dust gets into everything. It's noisy. Paint remover does the job too and is much faster labor wise. The down side with remover is how to properly dispose of the material once you scrap the gunk from the body.

I suppose it could be placed in Home Depot type 5 gallon plastic containers with lids and then taken to your local environmental friendly disposal facility that handles paint remover, thinners, and other hazardous materials. Check that out.

If you go the paint remover route ask around on the best stuff to use. Wear safety gloves and goggles. Keep the place well ventilated too because the stuff can make you dopey in short order. Take frequent breaks. (I speak from first hand experience.)

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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BearGFR
Bear

USA
580 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2011 :  1:46:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit BearGFR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If it's within your means and available where you live, consider taking it somewhere and having it media blasted. They'll be able to get it much cleaner than you'll be able to by hand sanding or by using a stripper.

Bear
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2011 :  9:16:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I use 80 grit on a DA sander, anything coarser will gouge the metal. Sanding doesn't really take that long and there is no chance of any chemical, or media residue. I stripped the GTO this way and it had five layers of paint on it. It wasn't that bad. Go to your local body supply store, or order online and get a roll or two of sticky back discs. I order from TCP global, very good prices.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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Latech
Cochise

USA
397 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2011 :  6:26:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some areas , possibly most can be stripped by razor blade, it takes a lot of blades as they dont wear well,strong fingers, and sometimes a few band aids.
I dont like chemical strippers, like mike said, the residue(even miniscule) can cause a lot of trouble with the new paint.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2014 :  08:57:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Pertinent thread for me at this time (2 Feb 2014, SB Sunday).

I have one of my fenders sitting on a auto body fender stand so the old finish can be removed down to metal. I figure it will take a good 2 hours using 80 grit hook and loop paper with pad using a Porter Cable Model 7424XP 6" variable speed Random Orbit (polisher) sander. This unit has a number of speeds so cutting action can be adjusted. This machine is pretty quiet which is nice.

Another electric rotary sander that I may use is not dual action, not orbital, but direct. Whether I use It depends on how the orbital unit cuts through the paint. It's heavy and noisy--wearing ear protection is mandatory too.

One good this is that the weather in South Florida is quite mild for the next 3 months, so, much of the sanding will be done outdoors. Who needs layers of paint dust in the garage.

I'll post a few photos of my progress.




"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  09:41:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 4 Feb 2014

I'm going to take my own advice, above, and use chemical stripper on the fenders.

I tried the orbital sander with 80 grit and found it too slow. It also didn't do well on the curved area of the fender.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  12:31:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I took the entire long fleetside bed already disassembled bed (both sides, both wheel wells, tailgate, front piece and like 7 cross sills) to a local media stripping place where they blasted them for me for a few hundred bucks. They used plastic media on the sheet metal so as not to warp it, and then a quick go over it with regular media for texture. On the cross sills they used regular media. Worth every penny. Found the couple bondo spots, no chemicals, and way better than i could have done with the DA. I would imagine a fender would be like $50-75 bucks.



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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  1:37:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm waiting for an estimate on soda blasting my fenders, front and rear bumper covers and hood.
=========
Edited comment: Received an estimate--
Local company does various forms of blasting including soda blasting. They charge $125 per hour. An entire car cost $1200. I asked about doing my fender, just the exterior side and it will cost $80 if I elect to do this. While he offers "come to your place" mobile work, that won't work for him in a residential area. As he stated to me, "Your neighbors will kill you, the stuff goes everywhere." If we lived in a rural area this wouldn't be an issue.

I would have to bring the pieces (or the car) to him to do at his shop.


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 05 Feb 2014 09:55:31 AM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  10:38:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I know everyone's resources are different, but to save myself MONTHS of stripping and messy sanding, and to not do near as good a job? I'd take the whole car for the $1200, if you're doing the whole thing. Then you could get right to scrubbing it down and doing primer and feel like you're making a lot more progress. I'd guess a whole car that size would probably be cheaper where i'm at, but of course Ohio and Florida two totally different economies. I was more about the plastic media than soda because i didn't want to worry about paint issues if i didn't get it cleaned/neutralized all the way. Then after primer which is kind of easy, you can get right to sanding that pretty smooth, and get some color on! You'll feel like you've made light years of progress, but of course at more out of pocket expense.

Speaking of cleaning, I've never done soda blasting, do you have to wash it with vinegar or something when it's done?

Ok just looked it up, guess there's decent info on what to do on this and products ready to work with:

http://www.chesapeakesodaclean.com/info/after/



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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  11:36:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
HA HA HA--no more trailer. It's gone....another issue to deal with--getting the car to him. Not insurmountable. But, hey, I'm not that far along to do the entire car.

BTW, the man told me "we don't use any media on bumper covers." . And, moments ago read the can on the chemical stripper and they said not to use on plastic or fiberglass. That leaves out my air dam, rear spoiler, shaker etc. [At least with this caustic stripper]

Bump, bump, bump after bump. It's all part of the resto process.

The resto companies I've spoken to down here don't use media blasting to strip paint down to bare metal. They prefer sanding. I'm not sure what the truth is as to why they prefer sanding versus chemical or media blasting. If a customer has money to do blasting, why not. The chemical thing could be an OSHA EPA thing. Just guessing.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 05 Feb 2014 12:24:40 PM
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7222 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  3:57:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congrats on selling the car hauler! The bodywork will sort out as you always do your due diligence. Can't wait to see the progress photos. Assuming Nocturne Blue is goin back on (hopefully)? ;-)

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  7:55:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes--same color. Same interior. Same driver.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  8:19:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cortcomp--I sent you an email.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Vanmor
Cochise

USA
573 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  06:33:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vanmor's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We used to have a place here that made the steel supports you see under bridges. They had an awesome sandblaster. They wanted you to bring them a shell and then blasted it. It took about two hours and the vehicle looked liie it had a metalflake finish and was rough to the touch. It would remove rust and old bondo so you would have holes where this stuff was. Of course they shut down years ago. I think they charged $100. It was quick and easy.

Fast forward to today. I have my complete front cap off. So I was thinking about doing the chem strip. I hear that existing bondo or filler will soak up some of the stripper. If so, this can ruin the new paint.

Sanding is time and labor intensive. If you have air tools, you need a really good compressor.

Since my GTO is not a trailer queen, I was thinking of just sanding really well without removing the paint down to the metal. I know some places will be down to metal but you get the idea. Then I was going to use a high build primer. That was until I looked at the cracking and chipping paint in some areas. It looks like sombody painted this car without any kind of primer. However, there is some of the old Verdoro Green under the white paint.

Oh well, I guess there is always "hot rod black".

"A man has got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry

Edited by - Vanmor on 06 Feb 2014 06:35:38 AM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  07:58:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm having some big reservations about my ability to handle all of things that need to be done on my car. Now, this TA is no basket case. The body is in great shape. There are only a few areas that need rust treatment. It's similar to a 35 year old going to the dentist and being told for the first time that there are 3 cavities that need to be fixed. So nothing major. Yet...the variety of road blocks are mounting for me.

It seems my plan is falling apart. I "can't see the forest for the trees" it seems that I am losing sight of what should be done first, second...that is the sequence of work. My wife see this and has rightly criticized me for not having my act together.... There's more.

My wife strongly believes that a 3rd party should handle most of the work especially the bodywork and painting. We've had some serious discussions about me taking on big projects around the house. She's watched me do "things" over the years and my desire for perfection tends to slow progress. Often things come to a halt. There's more too it, part is ego and my own belief that I care more about the finished product etc. I've given in to her several times in the past several years.

When I told her that my goal was to restore the car completely in 2014 she told me "get that body shop to do it." We have a shop in mind--they are very good, slow and expensive.

I'm betwixt and between on this. If I do some of the body work, for instance, and give it to the shop, they will re-do what I've done. I will pay twice for it.

I'm really frustrated and that's an understatement.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  09:35:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"Since my GTO is not a trailer queen, I was thinking of just sanding really well without removing the paint down to the metal. I know some places will be down to metal but you get the idea"

I've done that on all of my truck except the bed. It worked fine, DA 320, then primer, then wet sand 400 then paint/clear. The thing is on those chips and scratches, you have to really feather them out so there isn't a dip in the finish there. Otherwise, solid plan if the paints your painting with/over aren't incompatible. On my truck there was factory yelllowish primer, white, then red (it's two tone.) then someone repainted. Most if not all of the repaint i got off, so i was down to factory layers of paint/primer. Some areas i went through. When i was wet sanding if i accidently went through, i'd use 1K spray primer in a small part, or etching primer in a rattle can, to coat that area and when dry i'd wetsand it again carefully. When running your hand over it, it was super smooth but you could see some dark grey primer, then the lighter 2k primer, maybe some green etching over here. When painted it came out beautiful. I'm using solid color single stage paint though (and cheating by throwing clear over that), so it's a forgiving process. And remember, when you're done painting/clearing, you can still wetsand/cut/polish out any runs or other issues after that (as long as not a single state metallic w/o clear.)


Bill, got your email, will be doing my morning rounds and answer everything later today :)
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 :  10:24:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sent response last night, sorry it was long and rambling. Long and short of it: roll those sleeves up!
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Vanmor
Cochise

USA
573 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 :  2:03:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vanmor's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cortcomp,

As usual, you have sound advice. Thanks for chiming in on my response. When I think about it, the body shops here never really stripped a car to paint. They just sanded the paint and then laid paint over that. They hardly ever used any primer.

Bill,

I can relate. My car is not pretty but I still struggle with what I have. It's almost like I never can seem to get to things because I over think it to death. I also work on things in spurts. However, I get a lot done in that time frame.

My wife wants me to do the same thing. Take it to a body shop and finish the car. (I don't think they are ever really finished !)

There is a guy in Little Rock that does body work and paint. He has a team of man attack a vehicle. They get it ready and then paint it. The place they paint it in has a dirt floor! Some of the local guys have used him. I've seen his work and it's really nice. Now how long the paint will last is anyones's guess. My stepbrother says it's like going south of the border if you get my drift. My probelm is I don't want to haul my car the 120 miles from the Memphis area to Little Rock.

The task of body work seems daunting. I don't know why. I've done everything else to my car. It has been to a shop only once and that was to do the exhaust.

I think going at the project one panel at a time might be the best way to think about it. We just need to get started. We will make mistakes but by the time the car is finished, we'll know how it's done!

rshell has it right. Take your time but make the time to get out there and do it. Let's go for it !

"A man has got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 :  5:59:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well guys, I've checked my ego at the door, and arranged an appointment with a first class shop this coming Wednesday. This job was daunting with too many issues to overcome. Unlike, my effort in 92-93, I don't have ready access to paint and bodywork supplies, nor adequate room in my garage to disassemble, work and store pieces-parts. Logistically its been a nightmare to organize. I know this shop; know of their work, and have seen their finished product--excellent in every way.

So, there you have it. More details to follow.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 :  8:13:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think you'll be giddy and sleep at night come Wednesday. Really, when it's all said and done, you'll do way less work, and be back to driving it sooner!
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Vanmor
Cochise

USA
573 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2014 :  03:32:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vanmor's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sounds like a plan.


"A man has got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry
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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2014 :  07:21:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TTT
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