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 Header fit on 1970 GTO
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2011 :  10:09:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can anyone tell me if Dougs headers will fit a 70 gto with the steering lock linkage installed?? I don't want to lose my locking assembly. Using D port heads. What headers will work??

mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  06:08:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I assume you are talking about the back drive linkage from the column to the trans. Most street headers should be ok. I had Hedman's on mine with no issue. You may want to check their site to be sure. I will say this though, I just installed the RA manifolds on the 69 and they fit so much better than headers. They look awesome as well and they won't leak.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  09:43:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
+1 on RA headers. All things are possible underneath the car with those.
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BearGFR
Bear

USA
580 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  4:58:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit BearGFR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Clint,

I've got a pair of Doug's on my 69. The steering lock is installed and functional. I did have to "tweak" it some, i.e. re-bend, re-shape, slightly re-route the linkage rod, but it wasn't too hard. It just took some patience and several tries to get right.

I can get photos if you need them.

Bear
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  9:24:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for responding guys. I would like to go with RA manifolds, but at this point I'm not willing to give up power if I don't have to. Bear, what rod did you have to bend? The upper or lower rod? I think I have spares of each. Does the stock starter clear? How about the brake block?
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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2011 :  01:18:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Clint as you know we have the same year. The only headers I've ever ran on my goat are super comp Hookers and Doug's for D-ports, I also have the oem Hurst his/hers shifter. The Hooker's suck big time, mainly 'cause they needed to be banged in a lot to clear the lower control arm on the driver's side. Also very poor ground clearence, would scrape all the time with speed bumps, potholes, train tracks, etc. It improved some with stiffer big 'block chevelle springs but my beef is that the collectors are too low, they ended up below the skid plate....not good for us that encounter real world driving all the time.

I switched to Doug's when I swapped in the 455 for the first
time with 6X's and they fit very well except for a little clearencing for the driver side lower control arm. But very tight to the floor boards and above the skid plate.

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2011 :  06:03:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
They do make larger than stock RA manifolds now. Depending on your power level, they might be an option. I've always been told there was no difference between a street header and the RA manifolds.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2011 :  11:54:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike, I have wondered how much power you lose, if any with the manifolds. I don't understand how header companys can't seem to make a decent product. My heads now flow 255 cfm at 400 lift and 279 at 600 lift thanks to P Body's crew. I don't want to hurt flow by using the manifolds. When Ram Air made the larger manifolds did they change the casting, or machine the original castings?

My car has the Hooker comp headers on it now. Everything fits ok, but they are low as C-Goat stated. They are dented in on the bottem. They are also small piped(1.625 dia)

I am hoping that Dougs fit better, they should almost install on there own for the price you pay. I would be happy if they just fit.
If I buy Dougs, I would have them coated first. I wouldn't be very happy to have to beat on them to make them fit. If a company can't make headers to clear the frame, they deserve to be out of business.
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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2011 :  3:08:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Clint, those coated d-port doug's from Butler are listed at $600, only $100 less for the black coated ones. For Edelbrocks the coated doug's are $700!

Even if you can get a used set and then send 'em off to get coated which costs $250-300. You'll be lucky to save $100+ on the whole deal but you'll end up with a much more durable coating than the mass produced units.
http://www.lo-ko.com/services.html

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!

Edited by - Chicagogoat on 25 Sep 2011 3:33:11 PM
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2011 :  7:36:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I was just informed that the manifolds that were sent are the larger ones. I thought they looked bigger inside when I got them. I'm not sure how they did it, but they are plenty thick, fit perfectly and look stock. As far as headers go, I'm a huge fan of Mad Dog headers. We have those on the Firebird because of the monster motor and they fit perfect. Mark at Mad Dog is a super nice guy as well. They were $450.00 for the Firebird. They would have to be coated.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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spiders1010
Buffalo

89 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2011 :  3:29:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where can you get these larger then stock ram air heads you speak of???

1970 Tempest 455 4sp.

Block bored .30 over, decked 10, magnafluxed and honed. #15 heads ported and polished. Summit 2802 cam. Hooker Hedders, Chambered exhaust. Auburn posi, 3:73 gears. M21-4sp. 1.65 roller rockers. Quadrajet.


NEEDS MORE POWER
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2011 :  4:07:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ram air restorations:

oversized dports:
http://www.ramairrestoration.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31_2_21&products_id=38

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spiders1010
Buffalo

89 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2011 :  5:05:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks

1970 Tempest 455 4sp.

Block bored .30 over, decked 10, magnafluxed and honed. #15 heads ported and polished. Summit 2802 cam. Hooker Hedders, Chambered exhaust. Auburn posi, 3:73 gears. M21-4sp. 1.65 roller rockers. Quadrajet.


NEEDS MORE POWER
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BearGFR
Bear

USA
580 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2011 :  12:30:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit BearGFR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by clintww

Thanks for responding guys. I would like to go with RA manifolds, but at this point I'm not willing to give up power if I don't have to. Bear, what rod did you have to bend? The upper or lower rod? I think I have spares of each. Does the stock starter clear? How about the brake block?



Im not running a stock starter, but I see no reason it wouldn't clear. The rod I had to bend was the one that connects to the steering column and goes down to the tab on the "shaft" that hooks into the transmission linkage. It really wasn't that hard, just took a little time to get right.

On the drivers side I did wind up moving the brake block from sitting inside of the frame rail to sitting on top of it. On the passenger side one of the header tubes is very close to the lower control arm bolt head. If the bolt were run "the other way" such that the end with the nut was next to the header tube, there'd be a clearance problem there for sure. As it is, whenever I eventually have to replace the lower control arm bushings on that side I'm going to have to take the header loose to be able to get that bolt out. As it is I'd probably ought to stick a pry bar in there and dimple that tube just a tad so that the head of that bolt doesn't rub a hole in it as the engine torques on the mounts.

Talking about coatings - if you're going to freshen the motor, it's not a good idea to run coated headers on it during the break in because they'll get hot enough to mess up the coating. Mr. PBody clued me on to that one, and most of the header vendors will include that information in "the fine print" - after you buy their coated headers - which doesn't help much. Either break the motor in with "something else", or buy the headers in raw steel, use them for break in, then send them out to a company like Jet Hot for one of their coatings. That's what I did. I found the folks at Jet Hot in Arizona a real pleasure to deal with and I think their "Extreme Sterling" coating is probably better than what they header vendors use anyway.

Bear

Edited by - BearGFR on 27 Sep 2011 12:38:23 PM
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Vid
Kicking Horse

USA
1685 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2011 :  9:58:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Clint, FWIW I am running the RARE RAIII 2.25" collector manifolds and a 2.25' system with a 2.5" "H" crossover.

Before I got the RAIII manifolds on, I briefly ran Hedman shorty headers. Now, I didn't dyno test or do back to back track tests, but the motor MOST DEFINITELY seems to run and sound better with the RAIII's than with the shorties, especially in the mid range. For street performance, overall reliability and ease of fitment, the RAIII's are hard to beat IMHO.

That said, if you are going for maximum power RAIII's obviously can't beat a quality pair of race tuned headers. Good luck!
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2011 :  8:57:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I looked again at the RARE set up. That stuff costs more than headers. I need to talk with P Body again to see what he thinks of flow. I read on SD Performance that the horsepower drop may only be 5 to 8. But they also show it can be over 50HP difference.

I ain't paying more for less no matter how it fits. Wish I could rent each item for a day. I would love to dyno test Dougs VS RARE.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5338 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2011 :  9:09:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have some rares you could borrow, as the motor is at the machine shop and won't be together for a bit, but they're the stock sized not oversized. I'm going to get the oversized for the 455, and move these normal sized ones to the streetrod (if they fit) with the 428.
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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2012 :  6:34:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Talking about coatings- if your going to freshen the motor, its not a good idea to run coated headers on it during the break in because they'll get hot enough to mess up the coating


That's very true. When I broke in the motor last night I noticed that my headers were glowing on both sides during the first five minutes of the break in even though the RPM's were only 1800-2000 RPM's! The coating is still good but it's noticably duller. I can fully agree that buying the headers bare and getting them coated after the motor has been broken in will be a worthwhile effort. Also because you may have to bang in some tubes for clearance and a quality coating like Jet Hot or Lo-Ko is superior to the mass produced coatings. This is another reason why dynoing the motor is a good idea, pulling the header with the motor installed is a real PIA.

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!
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Steve C.
Crazy Horse

1677 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2012 :  8:07:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How often do we read about headers being massaged to get them to fit, often ! Although a pain in the butt it's another good reason to test first then send them out for coating. That and the issue of the higher heat during engine break in. I've seen a dyno session ruin the coating on a set of headers.
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Total Jackass
Tribal Scout

0 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  04:42:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Q. What do computers do when they get hungry?
http://www.coswatches.net/omega-deville.html

I'm a first class jerk and don't you forget it!
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7222 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2014 :  6:30:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TTT

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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