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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2011 :  1:06:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Today I received two paint estimates to refinish my Trans Am.

The first shop does basic paint jobs--not show quality work, but good refinishing in their paint and body shop of new and old cars.

With me gutting the interior and presenting the car with key trim pieces in hand to refinish and repaint--the estimate was $8,000.

A second shop that does custom work would media blast the body, fix the minor dings and the crack in the sail panel roof area. It would takes many months to do. The estimate was $10,000 to 12,000. Then I could start on the interior of the car. They would take the car in April 2012 and it should be done by the end of 2012.

Is there a doctor in the house? I need smelling salts.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7223 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2011 :  5:39:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, each time I have done this I had the same experience as you. All I can say is keep at it and sooner or later you will find someone who wants to work for a living and is not trying to hit a home run on every job!

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2011 :  10:57:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
10,000 to 12,000 Is a decent price for the work being done. How many coats, new front windshield, paint the engine bay and bottem side. How far are they going to go?
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  07:56:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Clint--The fenders need to be painted which includes that part that overlaps in the engine bay. Sometimes shops only paint what you see with the hood closed. So any job must include that.

The one shop didn't want to touch the windshield and told me I could do that. All trim pieces I would have to do myself along with removing pieces parts before they got it. This was the $8,000 quote.

The custom shop would want me to do the same things except they would get the windshield done for me. They are backlogged so my car, if given to them, would be gone for a large part of next year.

Today I have an appointment with another shop to get a quote. I have to keep pressing to get the best deal.

Painting the car myself is no longer feasible in this state. Too many restrictions and regulations have taken the DIYer out of the picture. It has to be done "professionally."


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  1:10:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I got another estimate today for 10-12K. This is a shop that works on high end european, asian, and domestic cars. The shop uses Spies Hecker urethane paint.

The car requires all paint to be removed. Blasting has been recommended by two shops to get down to the metal.

The shop owner had a very sharp eye and spotted many body flaws on the TA. I told him that's the way it came from the factory. He wants to fix them to a flawless standard.

He's used to flawless Lamborghinis. There was one in his shop along with a Bentley and other high end cars. They do terrific work.

I'm between a rock and a hard place.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 07 Sep 2011 2:53:24 PM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5339 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  3:13:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, if i WAS going to spend 10-12k on a paintjob, that sounds like they'd do a much better job.

Have you considered having it soda blasted first? There are places around here that will drive to you and do it on the spot. No need to remove glass, trim, etc.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  11:51:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Today I visited another shop. He turned my project down because he's working on a frame off 69 Camaro restoration--his own. He didn't want to take on another massive project, although my TA is would not be as complicated as his. His shop was small and it would be unreasonably delayed. I appreciated his candor.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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dgray
Cochise

845 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  9:12:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

wow. Those prices make my eyes water. I have seen $18,000 paint jobs at local shows but I would be afraid to drive the car and I drive a lot. I spent $6000 about 7 years ago and got a fair job. Even those $18,000 paint jobs had flaws that the owners see when they hand wash and wax their cars.
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  9:51:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A friend of mine had his 69 Chevelle painted a year and a half ago. For around 13,000 they bead blasted the sheet metal, and the frame. They installed a new windshield, primed several times, used a two part paint system, buffed the finish. They also masked the dash area and painted the dash black. They replaced the rear window bottem, and put small sheet metal pieces in the door corners. The owner removed everything. Interior, motor, front clip, engine compartment, and trim items. He also taped off things to keep the sand out. When they were done painting the owner got the car back to put it back together. After it was assembled, the shop buffed the finish. The shop took pictures as the work was done and put them on a disk for him. The shop charged by the hour and kept track of the time for billing the job out. Get the shops hourly rate and time estimate to compare. Hourly rates can vary quite a bit.
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Christ
Howling Wind

USA
1808 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  11:05:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bill,

send the thing up here ill paint it.6 grand for 500 for paint. How bad is the body?
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sixt8bird
Chief Many Horses

USA
1114 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2011 :  12:04:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit sixt8bird's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is why I painted and did the bodywork myself. It was the first paint job and body panel (sheet metal)welding ever. I am now at 4 complete paint jobs including rust repair. The 1968 400 Convertible was only $4100 to replace the quarter, fix a bunch of body damage , rechrome the front bumper and rear, replace the rear tail panel and remove and replace all the trim. This was 8 years ago and they are no longer in business. I was lucky as they screwed 2 other people in our club. I knew they were flakey but kept on them. No money was exchanged until they were done. The others forked over half and got their cars stripped and then they went bankrupt.
I would start frequenting car shows and find out who painted some of the cars. You'd be surprised how many backyard painters are out there that do killer jobs for cheap. Most guys I know buy the paint and then the body work and spraying is around $3,000-$4000.
By the way, just the paint on my car cost around $1500.
Keep looking or you can attempt to do it yourself. You never know, you could be the next Riddleraward car painter. Those cars cost like $40,000+ just for painting.

Here's a few of my paint jobs.
http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/sixt8bird/1968%20Firebird/
Its sort of confusing but when I first bought the car in 1981, it was a wrecking yard car. Factory two tone paint. Alpine blue with Cameo ivory white top. My Dad had a huge construction company and started a body shop for a friend so they painted my car red. I wanted candy apple red but I got a solid body Ford candy apple red that resembled ketchup!!! I hated it. Anyway, after adding about 300,000 miles on my ketchup colored firebird, the quarters were rotted out and I gouged the sail panel backing up under my 4 post lift(left one of the ramps down. Doh!!). So I sprayed the top back to the Cameo Ivory to see if I was capable of paint and body work. It turned out good so thats when I decided to spray a heavy metalic with lots of pearls for the body color. This was actually 1999 Dodge truck intense blue. I think it turned out awesome and for a 3 week complete paint , I couldn't have got it done quicker and I saved alot of bucks.
The 3rd car I did was my nephews car and by that time I started getting bigtime into Hotrods. I am building a 1929 Hemi powered Willys Whppet from scratch including building my own frame, roof, brake system, etc etc etc etc. I just got a 1936 5 window coupe which is alot closer to be driven but still needs lots of small stuff. I will be painting both of these also.
I do all this work while still trying to keep up with the honey do lists and run my own business doing construction. It's not for the faint of heart. LOL!!
http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/sixt8bird/1968%20Nova/

http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/sixt8bird/The%201929%20Willys%20Whippet/

http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/sixt8bird/1936%20Ford%205%20window%20coupe/
So Bill, if you want to save money, do it yourself but its also a time eater. Sometimes I wish I wasn't so cheap and would pay someone else to do some of my work but then it seems that , like you, they want to own the candy store in one deal instead of just buying a few candies from you to add to their candy stash.!!

Edited by - sixt8bird on 09 Sep 2011 12:08:50 AM
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dgray
Cochise

845 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2011 :  07:55:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My neighbor had his 75 Grandville convert painted burgandy last year by a local Mexican shop for $1900.00 and it looked damn good. The car was very straight and the only bodywork was replacing the plastic fender extensions that he supplied to them. I have been thinking about letting them paint my Caballero. He sold that Granville on ebay so I don't know how the job held up. I don't think they removed the original paint but they did sand and prime it.

Edited by - dgray on 09 Sep 2011 07:57:39 AM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2011 :  08:29:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Steve--I have painting skills and performed the 1st repaint of my TA in 1993. That was performed while I lived in Louisiana. All the prep and painting was done in my garage. A Dupont BC/CC system was used. It was lacquer based system. I used a respirator.

South Florida, where we reside today, and 18 years later, is restrictive in what the DIYer can do. The ability to shoot a lacquer type paint is gone. Enamels are out, leaving urethane which requires a full suit with fresh air respiratory system. Renting a booth? Not available. Urethane is toxic and I would not shoot it without a fully controlled safe environment.

The bottom line is that trying to do all the work myself again is unlikely. At this point, I'm not sure what the final solution will be.

From what I gather from talking with all the shops, the more they are given a shell to work with the better. Also finding a shop that will "work" on the car, not be a "garage queen" that gets worked on when activity is slow for them will be hard to find. The custom shop apparently has enough work ahead of me they are not very "hungry" for my job. There was no sense of urgency to get it in, or to work on it to get it done.

Putting the car in the hands of an out of town or out of state shop would be a supervisory nightmare for me. That's not going to work.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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sixt8bird
Chief Many Horses

USA
1114 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2011 :  10:59:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit sixt8bird's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Have you called Macco or those budget paint houses. We have a ton of them around here and they are always willing to do a good job for cheap. (respectively speaking). They spray full cars for aound $400 but thats just a scratch and spay job. I know a few that have gone to them and got kiler show quality for around $3000. The painters there will have more experience than most any other painters as they spray 3 or more complete cars a day!!
Usually when you bring in a classic, the workers all want to take part in working on it VS working on some daily pile of #@^$.

Edited by - sixt8bird on 09 Sep 2011 11:00:26 AM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2011 :  11:37:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Visited another shop today. They do the usual collision work as well as classics. They had 4 cars in the shop of that category. One was a frame off resto on a old foreign job--almost done. I also saw a 427 67 Corvette undergoing paint removal and body work and a 68 Camaro with full body undercoating. Each was in a different stage of work. They previously restored a 81 TA. On Monday, I'll take the car to the shop for on-site evaluation. My sense is they can do a quality job for under $10k. The owner seems very willing to work with me on my project.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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spiders1010
Buffalo

89 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2011 :  3:11:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I used Macco to paint my 76 camaro about 15 years ago. I spent 2500 bucks and actually took a couple awards home from shows. It wasn't a 15000 paint job, but I would use them again. You just have to really go over everything with them, and get it all in writing, so nothing gets missed.

1970 Tempest 455 4sp.

Block bored .30 over, decked 10, magnafluxed and honed. #15 heads ported and polished. Summit 2802 cam. Hooker Hedders, Chambered exhaust. Auburn posi, 3:73 gears. M21-4sp. 1.65 roller rockers. Quadrajet.


NEEDS MORE POWER
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BearGFR
Bear

USA
580 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2011 :  11:20:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit BearGFR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"Only" $12000 for paint from a custom shop? That's a deal. When I talked to a restoration shop here about doing my GTO, from media blasting to finished paint job, they handed me a figure of about $24,000. When I asked another custom/restoration shop what they'd charge me to just lay on the paint, clear, and buff it out if I presented them the car blocked, sanded, and ready to shoot they quoted me $11,000. Those numbers, plus the realization that even with that much cash outlay I'd still be in a position of just having to "hope" that they'd care as much about the car and would be as thorough and painstaking with it as I would made me finally decide to take a deep breath and tackle it myself.

Bear
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2011 :  4:21:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I took the TA to the last shop and had the owner check things out. He can't take the car until he finishes the 67 Corvette. I told him perhaps the beginning of next year, but I will check back with him to see how he's doing with the Vette.

He agrees that all paint must come off the car. He told me his guys can do that in the shop. What I need to get are some new pieces. He didn't think the bumper covers needed to be replaced, but did tell me to buy new end pieces for my rear spoiler. He thought the body was in excellent shape and that there was very little to do to straighten it. That was his opinion.

His shop uses Spies Hecker paint. That's great stuff. It will be taken down to metal and built back up.

In the next few months I have to resolve all mechanical matters, like the leaf springs and heater blower motor which is not working. My plan is to put the AC back into the car. That means that I need to re-locate the vacuum pump as it occupies the AC location.

When I drop off the car to him--I will have the interior gutted but for the driver's seat.

He's a few grand less than the other shops. His shop is busy and it is very clean--good signs.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2011 :  06:27:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but it seems paint prices have gone through the roof. Maybe I need to get out of the mechanical stuff and go back into the body and paint business. I'm sure the old man would be smiling down on me if I did.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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clintww
Cochise

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2011 :  10:12:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most shops seem to be around 60 to 80 dollars a hour around here. Mike, how many hours have you spent on the 69 already?? I know someone that had a 100 hours of sheet metal work done on their car.
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2011 :  06:26:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I honestly haven't been keeping track. I generally quote per panel based on $50.00 an hour and how many hours I estimate it will take. I'm probably somewhere around 70-80 now.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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Armadillo
Sitting Bull

USA
223 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2011 :  09:25:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My neighbor down the street has been painting in his garage for a while as a side line. He quit doing it because of all the work he was getting and his regular job. He would hand sand the car down (no to metal) and ptime and paint for about 2-3 k. Now I see why people kept on coming in to have it done. Would take 3 months to do a car. He just couldn't do it and work full time. Got tired of the pressure and it wasn't fun any more.

Will I ever be done?
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