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 The Return: Mr. Rust and Corrosion
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4793 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2011 :  08:40:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Somethings I don't seem to be able to solve. Rust and corrosion on my engine parts seems to be one of them.

For the past 7 months or so, my TA has spent time outdoors, meaning not hidden away in the garage sitting on jack stands. It did that for two years prior to that while I casually worked on changing my heads, installing new valve train parts, adding a new Pypes exhaust system etc.

During that time my engine bay was cleaned up, parts repainted and many fasteners were replaced with stainless. This, as you know, can be time consuming and sometimes tedious. Well after sprucing things up and coating several unpainted parts with clear paint to preserve them, Mr. Rust and Corrosion are back!

One of the parts I cleaned up and painted with clear to protect it from rust and corrosion is the steel tube that runs part of the way from my charcoal canister to the Q-jet. The rubber hose, of course looks fine, but the steel tube is taking on that "gorgeous" rust color that "stands out in a bad way like a Chevy SB or BB does in a Pontiac." Once again, I'll need to remove that part (not a big deal really) and remove the surface rust from it. Then it's what to do with it once it's cleaned and shinny again. Repaint it with clear? No, I don't think i'll go down that path again. Paint is black to match the hose? Maybe. Remove it and just go with hose? Probably not--losing OEM parts is not a good thing. So, I may paint is copper or maybe gold or silver. What about rust color? Naw....

Then there are the various parts attached to the carb that were also cleaned up and seeing rust and corrosion again. I may need to paint them with something other than clear to keep them fresh and free from Mr. Rust and Corrosion.

Finally, my chrome aftermarket valve covers that I purchased from one of the big vendors 13-14 years ago are seeing rust form on the flanges. They have been cleaned often before but the chrome is pitting now and rust is penetrating underneath the chrome. These were not triple plated chrome...pretty sure of that. So, I may have to go another route. The dull chrome and original covers for the engine are safely stored. These could be remounted, but dull chrome is "dull" to me. I have a pair of HOLLEY finned aluminum covers in black. That might be different--but not chrome. I think I also have a pair of Edelbrock covers, but I may have sold them--don't remember, and haven't seen them in a while. [Not a failing memory, just too much stuff in the garage).

Those of you reading this tale of woe who reside in arid climates are smiling for sure. Not your problem. None of you experience this. However, living where things are pretty much green all year round with blue skies, does have a few pit falls. Too hot and humid in the summer; mild and humid in the winter. Oh yeah, the other two season's pretty much are non- existent. Mr. Rust and Corrosion flourish here year round.

Solving the rusting problem is on my agenda....again.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2011 :  09:13:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Similar story here Bill. Even the GTO that has been outside with it's new engine for only a month is already seeing little spots here and there on the engine. I've found that the Eastwood detail colors are pretty good. Detail Grey, Aluma Blast, etc. are pretty good. I bead blasted all the assorted lines and such and painted them. They look original and don't rust. I'm going to be putting the wagon back in service as my daily driver and discovered the turn signals don't work. When I pulled the flasher I found that the prongs had rusted and then of course broke off when I pulled it out. That was fun digging out the pieces. Our climate is not much different than yours, except you are warmer. We are surrounded by water and the humidity is horrible in the summer. I feel your pain for sure.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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Latech
Cochise

USA
397 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2011 :  09:40:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Could you Dichromate plate them. I think that is a pretty easy 2 or 3 step thing you can do in the garage.?
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Vid
Kicking Horse

USA
1685 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2011 :  5:07:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guys, same rust issues out here, though probably not to the degree that you guys are experiencing. I live in inland southern California in a virtual desert climate, hot and dry and fairly dusty most of the time.

Bill, I know you had some issues with header leaks. Exhuast gasses are very corrosive and will cause rust like crazy.

The motor in my car has a pair of chrome Milodon valve covers, they are 3 or 4 years old and look fine, yet certian areas like bolt heads or the edge of a pump bracket will develop a little rust here or there if the paint has chipped off, scratched away or whatever.

You could try removing the rust, then occasionally wiping the problem pieces down some WD40 sprayed on a rag.

Could it possibly have something to do with the charging system, like corrosion on a battery terminal?

I don't recall having any issue with rust when I lived in Atlanta, which was very humid especially in the summertime. Go figure.
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Kiwi Mal
Cochise

New Zealand
690 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2011 :  11:53:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, If you use POR15 paints you don't need to remove light surface rust. In fact it likes it. Likes a rough surface to adhere to, so if it is shiny, it will need to be sandlasted or treated with their metal ready.
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kustid
Buffalo

47 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  05:54:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit kustid's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I may have the solution to your problem, we use these in both Australia and England every day. It pulls the water out of the air to stop the corrosion. A Dehumidifier. These units can take a gallon of water from the air in your garage a day but keep the humidity above 40% so it doesnt affect your leather/dash etc. If you check the forums you can see a lot of U.S folks use them as well to protect their cars.

http://www.best-dehumidifier-choice.com/garage-dehumidifier.html
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4793 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  07:28:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's today's current weather condition for Ft Lauderdale and vicinity:
Wind: 0 mph
Humidity: 80%
Dewpoint: 54
Pressure: 30.15"
Heat Index: 60
Wind Chill: 60
Sunrise: 7:05 am
Sunset: 6:03 pm

Every morning the grass and cars (actually anything outdoors) is saturated with "dew." Very wet. This is not only on surfaces, but under the hood it is damp too.

It's expected to reach 76 degrees today--nice overall.


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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dgray
Cochise

845 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  07:30:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You guys just need a few good oil leaks to coat your brite work. I have an old power steering pump that I will donate. It will keep at least half of the engine covered with a fine coat of oil that only needs to be wiped off every week or so. I doubt if this will work very well on cars that are up on blocks though.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  08:32:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
And i have a leaky valve cover for the other side of the motor, that way you're covered on both sides.
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  12:53:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have a leaky trans, that will take care of the underside. :) Remember farmers undercoating? Spray it with oil and run it down a dirt road a few times.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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BearGFR
Bear

USA
580 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  4:32:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit BearGFR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One of the "heavies" over on the Paintucation forum reslly likes Picklex20. (http://www.picklex20.com/). Says he's used it with great success under many paint jobs, but it's important to let it dry/cure a full 24 hours before applying anything over it. Supposedly, it converts even invisible surface rust into an inert coating. I used it on my GTO after I'd finished the metal work, prior to laying on the first coat of epoxy primer. I could tell it was working, because areas that had previously looked like consistent clean and shiny bare metal took on sort of a muted 'milky' cast that varied according to how much rust had already started to form there. You might give it a try. Clean the part(s), apply the Picklex20, let dry/cure for a day, then clear coat.

Bear
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Doug-M
Cochise

USA
262 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  4:33:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My car was pretty much rust free all while living in GA. I moved up here to Wisconsin and opted to store my car in a garage with concrete floors. I did not think much of it. That spring, I rolled my car out to see all this new rust on my heads, header bolts, exhaust hardware. I was crushed. Turns out that the concrete had enough cracks in to allow moisture to seep up from the ground. This influx of water is what caused my rust free car to get ugly fast. The following year, I laid out a nice thick sheet of poly that was wider and longer than the car... no surface rust issues that spring. But you should have seen how much water got trapped under that poly.

Vapor barrier, it is a good thing !

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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  5:55:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hey, that's a fantastic idea!
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Vid
Kicking Horse

USA
1685 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  7:11:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone ever try these "car storage bags", sort of an impermiable "zip-loc" bag for your car. I am dying to get one for my car because it is vastly superior to a traditional car cover.

How many times have you put your nice, clean detailed car under a normal car cover, only to uncover it a week later and find your clean car is now covered in dust. This "zip-loc" style cover keeps everything out, dust, moisture, bugs, etc.

http://www.autoanything.com/car-covers/65A3648A0A0.aspx

or

http://www.portablesheltershops.com/795SK.html
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Doug-M
Cochise

USA
262 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  8:21:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have not used the "Zip Lock" but another style I have seen actually has a small electric fan that keeps it semi-inflated a little and keeps air moving through them...
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Doug-M
Cochise

USA
262 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  8:24:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kiwi Mal

Bill, If you use POR15 paints you don't need to remove light surface rust. In fact it likes it. Likes a rough surface to adhere to, so if it is shiny, it will need to be sandlasted or treated with their metal ready.

There is also KYB paint. Apparently the same as POR 15 but a bit less money. The dealer told me it is the same guy that made POR, but just now he is on his own, and MORE colors! I have used chasis black and it flows really well.
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Chicagogoat
Cochise

USA
823 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  12:12:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chicagogoat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Doug-M Posted - 31 Jan 2011 : 4:33:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My car was pretty much rust free all while living in GA. I moved up here to Wisconsin and opted to store my car in a garage with concrete floors. I did not think much of it. That spring, I rolled my car out to see all this new rust on my heads, header bolts, exhaust hardware. I was crushed. Turns out that the concrete had enough cracks in to allow moisture to seep up from the ground. This influx of water is what caused my rust free car to get ugly fast. The following year, I laid out a nice thick sheet of poly that was wider and longer than the car... no surface rust issues that spring. But you should have seen how much water got trapped under that poly.

Vapor barrier, it is a good thing !




Yeah Doug, we've talked about this extensively over the years. Some of my friends used to tell me that you must insulate the floor of your garage and use a good car cover even if its heated due to the condensation or dew that forms during winter's temp. swings. I used to shrug it off saying that they're ridiculous, until I seen it happen over the years.

I personally prefer using por-15 on the rear ends I've built and would definitly use it on the chassis. I've applied on onto semi rusty rear ends and it is indeed the most durable and shiny finnish for the undercarriage it looks and holds up as good powdercoating. Of course the big turnoff is the price and its very quick shelf life once opened. I'd be willing to look into that KYB.

Pure Pontiac: learn it, live it, love it!
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  12:26:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike mcarthur's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I haven't had any problem with cars in the garage. The Firebird has been in the garage for,(I hate to say),8 years with no rust issues,in fact, the trunk lid has been sitting there completely bare for the last 5 years and has no rust at all.

It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4793 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  06:29:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
While my car sat in the garage for two years undergoing "work", it sat on jack stands. My garage is connected to the house but was not insulated. So, when summer temperatures arrived it was terribly hot in there. When cooler weather arrived, like we have now, it is cool, even cold in the garage (for Floridians). During that time rust was slowed if not curtailed all together. Parts stayed clean and corrosion, well, was negligible. Keeping it inside away from the highest humidity and all that dew makes a difference.

Today, the garage is insulated and the temperature is more consistent. However, there's too much other "stuff" in there. If you want to keep your Pontiac looking good for a long time--keep it garaged
.

Today's weather at 6:30 am:
Wind: 0 mph
Humidity: 87%
Dewpoint: 66
Pressure: 30.06"
Heat Index: 70
Wind Chill: 70
Sunrise: 7:05 a.m.
Sunset: 6:04 p.m.

Look at that humidity--87% Hello Mr. Rust--another field day.

It may reach 80 today with blue skies.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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dgray
Cochise

845 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  08:01:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Heat and humidity cause oxidation faster than any other factors. We sometimes send coated parts out for salt spray testing. Powder coating usually wins hands down in testing. Any chip in the coating causes a festering wound in the finish. You might check the small parts powder coating products in the Eastwood catalog. You spray the powder coat on and bake it in an "old outdoor" oven (not in your kitchen). You can even get clear coat. I know of companies locally that are set up for a specific color and they will powder coat miscellanious parts in that color at low cost. The downside of powder coating is that the parts must be able to stand around 200-300 degrees during the bake process. All rubber gaskets and heat sensitive plastic parts could be ruined, but some powder coatings do not take as much heat to cure as others. Some kinds of plastics can be powdercoated.

Edited by - dgray on 01 Feb 2011 08:06:36 AM
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Cobrabill
Talking Dog

Aruba
3128 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  5:01:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Moisture actually expedites the curing of POR-15

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eugenevdw
Tribal Scout

1 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2017 :  11:06:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit eugenevdw's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Rust is the enemy that can't be beaten, but can be kept at bay. Your best bet is to just buy a dehumidifier with a hygrometer and set it to maintain the humidity at around 40% to 50%. Any higher than that and you're going to have rust and mold issues. If you drive the humidity down lower than 40% your wood paneling and leather upholstery are going to suffer. I know your car is your main concern but it's worth spending some money on a decent dehumidifier if you think about what rust could do to your tools and other equipment too. There are some good garage dehumidifier options here: http://www.knowitalllearning.com/best-garage-dehumidifier-review/
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