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 Bill Boyle's 79 TA Restoration Project--Part 1
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67drake
Sitting Duck

Azerbaijan
1501 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2014 :  11:36:28 AM  Show Profile
Bill,my local True Value stocks U-clips. I couldn't tell you if it's in the size you need,but I'm amazed how many auto parts related things I find there. I go to one of those "old school" hardware store True Values where the guys actually know their stuff.


71' GTO Original 400 M20 3.23 posi
13.95@102.1 MPH on street tires
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  11:38:22 AM  Show Profile
Update: 13 Jan 2015

The project continues at a slow pace. I continue to clean parts, prep them and paint them. Then it's storing the parts and fasteners for later installation.

The best thing is that there's are a lot more parts finished than three weeks ago.

Both of my fenders have to be dealt with yet. Both the left and right panels are in good shape but for the flat areas that are in the engine bay. They have rusted areas that need to be fixed.

UPS and Fed Express deliveries come often now. New body fasteners arriving later this week.
All good signs that progress is being made.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  1:38:45 PM  Show Profile
Is it just me or have others noticed that the pictures posted on page three of this thread are no longer visible?(I didn't go back prior to those)

Bill,
Are you still having the final paint done by a shop?
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  4:26:31 PM  Show Profile
Brian--the photos I've posted are missing right now. Machost the server company I use, switched servers, an update of equipment I am told, and things aren't quite right yet. This is another indication. I'm hoping all the photos are back on display soon. I can't load new photos and I have lots of them.

As for exterior painting--I'm not certain at this point what I'm going to do. The company I was in contact has disappointed me by not keeping appointments with me about doing the car--not a good sign. Why do you ask?

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  8:05:50 PM  Show Profile
Just wondered. Seemed like you were doing a lot of work and I thought at some point the car would be going to paint.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  07:21:41 AM  Show Profile
Brian--I'm a bit frustrated right now. I've had the fenders, radiator support, radiator and bumper off the car for almost a year. As a practice, every bolt was removed and bagged with a description of where it goes (or came from). Because progress has been slow with months in between real activity, I've misplaced some of my fender fasteners. I can't find the plastic bags containing the parts. Nothing has been removed from my garage, that I'm certain of, just can't locate them and the boxes I put them in for "safe" storage. Thank goodness I took lots of photos and have them on my computer. After all these years, you'd think I'd know better. I'll find them sooner or later. In the meanwhile, I'll continue to kick myself for putting them in such a good "safe" place.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2015 :  08:14:33 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Admin

just can't locate them and the boxes I put them in for "safe" storage. Thank goodness I took lots of photos and have them on my computer. After all these years, you'd think I'd know better. I'll find them sooner or later. In the meanwhile, I'll continue to kick myself for putting them in such a good "safe" place.

Bill



I know the feeling, believe me. The last month or so I've been cleaning out the garage and the various cabinets discovering treasures(?) along the way. When you find your missing parts you'll shake your head for sure.

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2015 :  08:24:10 AM  Show Profile
Here are some early "before" photos. They show what I was facing.

This is the bumper support as it appeared after detaching it from the car. It had been cleaned up with soap and water and was dry.



This is one of the braces. (The candescent lighting really shows off the surface rust.)



Here is a shot of the radiator support and headlight support before removal. Again, lots of
weathering, but mostly light rust to treat.



This is the driver's side--the pocket where the car battery sits. The hardware to the bottom right looks okay at first glance....


Here's another photo of it.


When the bolt was removed it became evident that new hardware was needed. The metal, as you can see, has been badly pitted by battery acid over a 30+ year period. It had been treated with new paint in the past, but not treated with POR-15, which was how it would be treated after extensive wiring brushing and some grinding.



As mentioned these are "before" photos. Although I have previously posted an "after" photo of the bumper support, it's included again so you can see how the metal prep and painting turned out. Here is the "after" photo of the bumper support.



I have taken many photos. More will be added.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2015 :  11:19:50 AM  Show Profile
After posting the above photos it was back to the garage to do some work.

Today, I'm tackling more of the passenger side of the "frame" cleaning off surface rust, degreasing and painting using undercarriage black.

In the process of looking around, I noticed several areas on the block showing signs of rust. When I rebuilt the engine in '96 I lightly coated the engine with Pontiac engine paint. Another coat or two may have protected the block a little better. Granted, this is 18 years later...I know that...but it seems like yesterday that the engine block was being painted. It looked brand new then. Everything has to sparkle again. It takes time to regain that glow.

So, to get to the areas on the passenger side that needs attention, the engine mounting bracket was removed from the block. While out it will be repainted black. Having previously removed the 2 large engine mount bolts from the car (during header removal months back) I used a bottle jack to carefully lift the engine up an inch or so--just enough to remove the bracket. A block of wood sits under the pan on the large crossmember for added safety. Always safety first. The bottle jack remains in place.

With the block secured in place, I have a little more space to clean the engine and frame and freshen things up with new paint.



"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2015 :  7:25:30 PM  Show Profile
Ordered a kit containing stainless steel fasteners that will be used to replace existing hex head type body fasteners. They aren't cheap and I went with them in lieu of re-using all the stock fasteners that have to be cleaned, wire brushed, painted, cleaned, wire brushed, painted over and over to keep them looking fresh.

Several years ago SS screws were installed on my chrome headlight retainers. Other hardware was replaced too but were not SS. Check this photo out. Can you tell which is which?



This is why I'm going with stainless steel. I'm really tired of all the high maintenance fasteners.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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bnorris_74
Crazy Horse

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2015 :  09:17:42 AM  Show Profile
I'm guessing it's not the one in the middle.

So humidity is the culprit here?

I'm also guessing that the rusted headlight adjustment screw won't be in your SS fastener set.

Those specials would probably clean up nicely in a small sandblast cabinet.(thought about buying one, just haven't done so).
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2015 :  09:21:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage
You'll be pleased bill, i did my 66 truck with stainless, it's the best. Besides corrosion, the fasteners look better than plain black (esp against painted parts like the fender, etc) but they don't chip when installed like painted fasteners. The easiest best looking solution.
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rkellerjr
Many Feathers

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2015 :  10:42:05 AM  Show Profile
Looking good!

Rich
1975 TA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR86YT69yeY
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2015 :  12:23:38 PM  Show Profile
I have a product recently purchased but haven't used yet. It is Everbrite. It is applied on bright metal. They say it is superior to clear coating it with a paint. It supposedly holds up against tool use as well. The adjustment screws will get this treatment at some point otherwise maintenance will be needed periodically to keep the *&^% rust off.
++++++

Well...today I'm back at it. Looking around the engine, there are telltale signs of rust bleeding throw here and there. So, like a good dobee, more things are coming off the engine to freshen things up. Before you know it everything will have come apart. This is the project that continues to expand. I'll post a few picts later today or tomorrow on what was done, assuming I can get far enough along to post "after" picts. It's time for lunch and I've been at it for 3 hours already. At least it is a nice sunny day with low humidity. Temp around 72 and our dogs are enjoying the cool weather.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2015 :  03:09:55 AM  Show Profile
That's great that you continue to find the time and energy to throw a few posts about the work on the rig. It's inspirational. Makes me consider going to the garage and doing something. Anything. Low motivation lately.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2015 :  06:45:34 AM  Show Profile
Today, I'm off to see an "open" car show. Looking forward to seeing some Pontiacs. At the last show there were only two, both GTOs and neither was in great shape. They were clean and sharp looking on the exterior but the engine was just the opposite. Clean is one thing, but fresh paint would have made them really stand out. These weren't "survivor" cars that never saw new paint. Both were repainted at some time with a touched-up engine bay. The paint was caked on --didn't have a clean, smooth appearance.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2015 :  09:56:30 AM  Show Profile
The car show I attended yesterday had 300+ cars on display. It had cars from the 20s, hot rods, customized vehicles from the 50s, muscle cars from the 60s and 70s, Jeeps, 4 x 4 trucks, exotic cars....even 8 Pontiacs. I took photos of a 79 TA/TA that was in stock form. All pieces in place sporting the "220 net hp" L78-W72 engine, WS6 etc. It took me back to "disco." The owner has owned it only 2 years. He takes it to shows and keeps it garaged. He's done nothing to it.

+++++++
It appears that I'll have to pull the carb again in order to freshen up the paint on the intake manifold. I noted yesterday with the TA/TA at the show that it was painted the same color as my engine. I also was reminded how confusing the engine compartment was back then with all the vacuum hoses running every which way, including electrical lines. The stock engine is hardly visible as it hides under everything. [New cars have shrouds that cover just about all the important stuff. ]

Below is a photo (sorry for the backlight from the early morning sun) of the engine bay. The engine is in there somewhere.



Anyway, the point is, my engine will continue to sport the air clean assembly but will be without the air induction lines coming from the driver's front fender. The large A6 compressor system could be replaced like what is pictured, however, unless my plans change, I will have installed (not by me) a Sanden type small, high efficiency AC compressor with fewer lines. So, while the stock engine as shown hides beneath stuff, more of the engine will be visible in my engine bay. Consequently, my effort to make the engine looks clean and neat won't be for nothing. That's why I'm going through this tedious procedure (punishment?).

Back to the grind....

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2015 :  1:56:09 PM  Show Profile
Wow I remember those stock engines when they were new. I couldn't wait to start pulling stuff off!

BTW, what color blue are you painting your engine? Stock for 79 blue?
Rattle can??

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2015 :  3:11:56 PM  Show Profile
Phil--the paint I used in 1996 for my rebuild and touch-up since that time is EN-65 from Seymour of Sycamore, Inc., located in Sycamore, IL. Purchased that last couple of cans from Ames in 2012. Most of the touch-up during the past 18 years has been on the exhaust ports that continually burns off and then starts to rust.

This time, before repainting the exhaust ports with the EN-65 Pontiac (late model) blue, the exhaust ports rust was removed with a wire brush (drill) and then the area was treated with Eastwood's Factory Gray High Temperature Coating. Supposedly coating withstands 1200 degree F. I'll find out if it protects the top coat or not. It probably won't prevent them from turning color but may slow the rust from returning immediately. The jury is out on this one.


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2015 :  9:54:43 PM  Show Profile
Humidity--it really plays havoc with iron and steel.

Here are three more photos. All of the waterpump as they existed a couple of days ago.







More photos were taken as progress was made refinishing these areas, yesterday and today. Those bolts and washers are 18-8 (304) stainless steel. They work fine where
grade 5 and 8 bolts are not required.

Those "after" picts will be posted soon.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2015 :  11:13:02 PM  Show Profile
Work continues on freshening up the appearance of the engine.

Standing in front of the engine, I worked front to rear. The fan was removed and the declutching part was cleaned and the blades repainted gloss black. It was reassembled and set aside for future installation.

Afterwards, the hub where the fan attaches to the pump was cleaned up with sandpaper and a wire brush to remove rust that was forming on it. Since the pump cover was to be repainted Pontiac blue, but the timing cover is silver, the timing cover was masked off and several, but no all of the water pump SS bolts were removed. When ready it was sprayed with EN-65 Pontiac (late model) blue enamel. This was a slow process because not all the bolts were out. When the pump housing was dry, bolts went in and others were removed and those areas painted.

Looking at the engine as a canvass, I decided the timing cover would be left for last, so I focused on the front of the engine and intake manifold. The Q-jet was removed and placed in a box to protect it along with its fasteners and brackets. It's important to keep all things separate and properly bagged. The intake was cleaned up, wire brushed, hit with sand paper were needed and recoated following a masking job that took 10 times longer than the paint application. Photos of my progress to follow.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2015 :  3:25:08 PM  Show Profile


Here you can see how surface rust is attacking everything. The valley pan below the water cross over had coolant sitting there from a temporary leak from the
right side and from the water inlet. Coolant destroys paint and leaves the metal subject to oxidation. So, the pan was treated with WD sandpaper and
a shot of primer. Then painted with enamel.





Part of the timing cover is exposed in this photo and you can see how the casting is not very smooth at all. It has always puzzled me as to why the covers
were so rough.



Taping around everything was time consuming. I spent 10 times more time prepping for paint then painting. I suppose that ratio helps with a getting a good paint job.



Here is a photo of intake after receiving a fresh coat of Pontiac blue.



After the paint on the engine was dry, the masking of the timing cover began. Masking that area took a lot of time. I didn't want any silver to screw up the Pontiac blue.



This shot was taken immediately after the timing cover was shot with silver engine paint. It has a 500 degree F rating. It dries to the touch in about 30
minutes. Peeling off the low stick tape was done carefully. Repairing lifted off paint isn't fun, so don't be in a rush to pull it off--always do it slowly.



Here the paint is dry and fasteners and going back in....

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2015 :  3:43:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage
Looking sharp!

My father in law taught me to remove masking tape when the paint was wet/tacky but had dried some. Peeling the tape back on itself always to leave a clean paint line. He said if we waited too long, the line would look rougher or risk flaking, or gooey strings that stretched as you pulled and fell back on. I didn't care much until i was doing two tone in the '66 exterior paint, i wanted as smooth a finish as possible.
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rkellerjr
Many Feathers

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2015 :  6:15:27 PM  Show Profile
Nice, very nice!

Rich
1975 TA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR86YT69yeY
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2015 :  8:54:02 PM  Show Profile
Looking great!

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2015 :  11:02:27 AM  Show Profile
Thanks guys, I'm hoping the extra care doing things will pay off. 1) eliminate a lot of future maintenance other than spiffing for car shows and 2) making it stand out from the other (but few) Pontiacs competing for "recognition" trophies or plaques. The few Pontiacs I've seen at car shows in the past year probably number less than a dozen. There were a few rebuilt TAs that were astonishing but very stock in appearance, just like the TA/TA I saw last Sunday.

This morning, more of what I took off the engine was re-installed. Every engine bracket has been removed, cleaned up and repainted. Some are still drying and will be installed soon.

One of the things that remains to be done is repainting the driver's side of the engine where the steering is located and the brake, clutch assembly etc. Not much room over there to get hands in to mask or use a spray can. That will go slow for sure. The head was treated with the Eastwood product so Pontiac Blue will be used to topcoat it.

The booster was sent out last year for re-plating and is sitting in the box it was delivered in, same is true with the headers back from Jet-Hot. I've wire brushed all the brake pipes and coils that protect them and will coat them with Everbrite in the hopes of keeping them rust and corrosion free. Again there's not much room in and around there to get it all and make it look good. I'll take my time with it. Everbrite can be applied with a sponge brush so that should work pretty well. Most of the sub-frame has been scrubbed, degreased, and given a a few fresh coast of undercarriage black paint. So, hopefully that will stay free from rust for a few years, especially if the car is garaged.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  09:20:00 AM  Show Profile
Today, I'm focusing on the driver's side of the engine and willfinish painting the "frame" area over there as well.


Here you can see the gray exhaust coating on the head. Will it help protect the paint from burning away? Maybe--maybe not. I'm trying it. BTW, that's tin foil. It conforms to shapes nicely and like paper is re-cycleable.



No, that's not the Lone Ranger behind that mask.

Two coats.

A little dry time and I can move on to the frame. Yippee.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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67drake
Sitting Duck

Azerbaijan
1501 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  11:15:04 AM  Show Profile
Looking good Bill.... except for the selfie


71' GTO Original 400 M20 3.23 posi
13.95@102.1 MPH on street tires
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  2:22:36 PM  Show Profile
I needed some inspiration right now, thanks Bill!

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  2:28:21 PM  Show Profile
Looking at those photos I am reminded of an old problem I once had with earlier heads on a later car: How did you deal with the PS/Alt bracket issue and a missing bolt hole (or some such problem I am fuzzy on these days).

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  2:56:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage
You make a metal strap threaded at one end as outlined in jim hand's book, worked great for me. I forget where it hooks to, but basically it sticks up where the hole would be and you thread the alt bolt into it. I can't find a pic of it but if you need it, i have the book at home and can maybe snap a picture.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  3:53:16 PM  Show Profile
Phil and Cort--When the 62 heads were installed, they were missing the correct number of bolt holes to handle all the brackets found on the TA. So, my creative juices flowed and I fashioned a bracket to handle the matter.

Look at my 21 Jan post above. See the little black L shaped bracket that bolts to the right intake manifold bolt. That supports the back end of the long bolt that holds the lower end of the alternator with bracket to the engine. I also made my own nut for it out of steel and taped and threaded it for the bolt. I also made a spacer for it. More photos to come on it for clarification.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  4:14:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage


The jim hand fix was as below, a straight strap similar to what you used, bolted in two holes and then the top hole that i have open was threaded (or a nut behind would work too.)

Either way i can't see an issue, as long as there is an anchor there.

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  4:38:11 PM  Show Profile
Three photos below should help illustrate the bracket remedy for the #62 heads.



To the far right--see the square? That is threaded and is the nut to hold the alternator.



The next photo was taken several days ago while disassembling all the brackets on the front of the engine. It was shot so I'd know exactly how the pieces went back together. When everything is painted fresh, you don't want to mar the paint experimenting because you forgot which piece goes where.


I want to add that this set up is strong and accurate for all the pulleys and belts. I made sure of it during it's fabrication and installation several years ago.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Merrik66
Cochise

USA
370 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  11:31:17 PM  Show Profile
Great work bill!
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2015 :  5:03:27 PM  Show Profile
That's it! Thanks guys! Excellent photos Bill.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2015 :  1:41:32 PM  Show Profile
Today is Monday 26 Jan 2015. The weekend was lost to doing other projects that wore me out. Today I didn't feel much like laying on my back and working on the frame to do more clean up and painting so, I removed the R-M horizontal wire looms that I've used on the engine to route my spark plug wires. Both sides had gotten grungy looking so off they came. To my surprise the chrome had gone south on both of them. Again, I guess I'm expecting too much from chrome that is 15-16 years of age. New ones from R-M Specialties are close to $100, so I considered ones that were anodized. The gold ones appeal to me but not the price, so I cleaned up both aluminum rails with degreaser, hit them with Brasso, then lacquer thinner and denatured alcohol. Then I sprayed both with metallic gold paint. They came out pretty good. Now, I'll need to try and clean up my Blue Max Moroso 8mm wires so everything looks clean.

*********
Exterior preparation is looming ahead. My plan is to reassemble fender parts radiator supports etc. Once the fenders are back on the car, I'll start stripping off the old paint, one panel at a time.

Based on all my research, you really have to think backwards. Starting with the clear, color coat, primer-surfacers and epoxy primer. Knowing what brand of paint you will use is key to the job. Mixing chemicals from different company's is risky. It's best to stay with one manufacturer all the way through. That's what I've done in the past and it still remains a good idea to follow.

As of today, I'm thinking that the one shop I had planned on using is now out of the question. I honestly don't believe they want TA to do or my money to do it. The plan was to use Spies Hecker paint line. That's what that shop uses exclusively.

It appears that I will either go back to Dupont again, this time using a urethane BC/CC system or the similar Nason line. I'm unfamiliar with the Nason line but it's available and my brother has used the product line numerous times on cars that he's painted.

Once I remove all the old paint and substrates (lacquer) and get down to bare metal, I'll shoot it with Nason Epoxy to protect it. Most of the TA's body panels are straight so there will be little body work to do. A primer-surfacer will go on top of it and get block sanded to get things "arrow" straight, as they say. All of this prep can be done in my garage.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  09:12:05 AM  Show Profile
I was recently talking with a car guy in my neighbor and the topic of refurbishing parts came up in our discussion. He asked if I was removing the old finish on brackets before repainting them. It was yes and no. If the brackets were smooth and didn't have evidence of numerous other coats of paint, it was re-sprayed in that condition. Anything that wouldn't give a "first coat" of paint look was stripped down, hit with a light coat of primer and re-coated. He also asked how much time was spent painting parts and I told him very little. Most of the effort was in the prep (cleaning , stripping, sanding, rust removal, rust treatment, primer). Just passing this along....

++++++
The Summit vacuum pump that is currently on the car located in the position where the old AC compressor bracket and pump was located, and where a Sanden type compressor will eventually be mounted, is going to be removed from the car. It may be relocated to a less conspicuous area under the hood, if I can find one. I say "may" because new front disc pads and rotors are on my work bench to be installed. I'm hoping that braking will improve with the new parts and the existing vacuum from the engine will be sufficient to power the brake booster. The front pads and rotors are original to the car and stopping it was difficult following the installation of the #62 heads and Comp 276AH10 cam. I have some options to make it all come together.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  1:44:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage
Bill, on the nason line, they make good stuff for everyday use, easy to use, forgiving, etc but not top of the line or anything. Are you talking the single stage acrylic enamel nason or their BC/CC line?

I did my truck in the better centari line of single stage, but, as the paint was drying and getting tacky, we sprayed 2-3 coats of nason's all over clear (with time between coats of course, about 5-10 minutes, nason clear dries like right now.)

That truck appraised as a condition 2+. We of course wetsanded and buffed the crap out of the clear at the end, but their clear is a nice once to sand and buff. You can hold up a bottle of something and read the fine copyright print at the bottom. No exaggeration, looks like a 20K paint job. Including TONS of clear i used on the bed wood, we probably had 2k in paint, clear, and supplies.

I painted the truck piece by piece over the winter, doing an all-over paint job would be a lot cheaper on supplies. AE is a harder paint, and the clear gives you insurace if you plan to wetsand. The clear and the AE both have UV protection in them.

It's not the "usual" way, it's a cross between single stage and the cost of BC/CC. A little more durable, better in the sun long term. Only downside is it's easier to fix a paint error in BC/CC before clearing, in AE, you're scuffing and reshooting a section.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  5:07:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage
Cort--never used Nason, only info I have is from my brother. He's shot it before, I haven't. I've used Dupont almost exclusively. Used Martin Senour once on my wife's 79 Volvo--that's long gone.

My personal preference is the Dupont because of my experience with it in the past. The BC/CC urethane system I haven't used, and that of course includes the epoxy primer--didn't exist when I shot my car in 92-93.

Your comment that it's not the best is a signal to me...a big one. Thanks.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  7:44:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage
Nason is dupont's value line is all, it's still good but there are differences. Centauri is like their buick line and then of course there's the BC/CC options in different "lines". I can tell you if you get say, nason black, they can make it on the spot, the paint tech told be their black is a lot of binders. But, they said centauri is actually paint. Like if you want one of the three black colors, they get it from dupont, you can't mix it, it's all actually paint.

I actually liked nason's clear, you could sand it the next day or 6 months later. I've never used high end clears to see if they're easier, but this wasn't that much work. Of course down there you want all the UV protection you can get.

I don't remember the name of their higher end line.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  10:33:49 PM  Show Profile
Bill, whatcha doing with the rusty valve covers?

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2015 :  07:11:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage
Phil--I have brand new duplicate valve covers to replace these old ones. I've been wondering if these old covers can be powder coated or maybe rechromed. I hate to throw "stuff" away.
+++++++

The SS body fastener kit should arrive today.
+++++++

Made good progress yesterday repainting the crossmember. The starter was also refurbished on the outside and is available for reinstallation. When it was removed, I was surprised to see how much surface rust had formed on the back cover. The rust was easily removed though. The uncomfortable job of sliding myself under the car to degrease and clean stuff is almost over, at least for the front end of the TA. I've gotten better at getting all of my "things" together to minimize the sliding under and forgetting something just to slide back out to get it.


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2015 :  07:35:46 AM  Show Profile
Yeah I had a feeling you were going with repops. Let us know how they measure up in quality vs. your oem's? Where are you planning to get them, PY?

I agree you should save the originals.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2015 :  08:15:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage
Phil--The new covers are in my garage...got them from Ames Performance Engineering 6-8 months ago.

[The photo posted on the 19th of January showing the TA/TA is clear evidence that "chrome" valve covers were merely an afterthought. The stock pieces are barely visible amongst all the wires, brackets, and vacuum lines.]

++++++
The set on the engine were bought last century. They've been on the car since, on and off a bunch of times. I kept them in good shape...you won't know it by the way they look currently. These were purchased from Ames. I went back to them for the new ones. The car will be mostly garaged once it's completed and shouldn't see much rain or outside humidity. So, hopefully the new covers should be in good shape for many, many years. BTW, underneath them are 16 1:65 ratio Scorpion Roller Rockers.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 28 Jan 2015 12:37:50 PM
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2015 :  2:43:00 PM  Show Profile
How's the quality vs. OEM? (Not that OEM covers are great to begin with!)

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2015 :  3:45:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage
Update: 28 Jan 2015
First in reply to Phil--The quality of these covers is quite good. They stay very nice when treated right and polished using a soft towel--perhaps a micro towel with non-abrasive finish polish. Much better than the light make believe chrome found on the OEM from PMD. For and engine without all the vacuum lines etc...the engine will really sparkle because of them. They are worth the $100.
------------------
UPS delivered a SS bolt kit (Totally Stainless) that supposedly covers the car from bumper to bumper. (no engine bolts in this.) The bolts, nuts and washer are packaged neatly with description that helps sort them and organizes them for use. As with anything like this that comes in a kit, I suspect there are bolts that won't work or fit my TA. Over the years I have found a mish-mosh of SAE and metric used by the factory. The other point is that the description of pieces is to fit Camaro. I suspect, just based on this and knowing there are differences (e.g. Front sway bar bolts are massive on TA and puny on Camaro), that bolts provided won't work. Just how many will? I don't know, yet. More on this as I eventually get into the bags and use them.

I'll keep track of what's what. This kit is Part Number 68013--Totally Stainless.

Final remark: SS bolts require anti-seize on the threads so they don't gall. I'm happy to report the Totally Stainless flyer inside the box also points this out. It's a must step with SS fasteners.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 28 Jan 2015 7:39:33 PM
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2015 :  08:56:19 AM  Show Profile
Too funny, I was all set to reply about the SS threads galling and using anti seize, but of course Bill Boyle is on top of things as usual.

Thanks for the info on the covers. As is usually the case with this stuff, I expect the various Pontiac vendors to be carrying the same parts. I may get them through PY instead of Ames. Agree 100% regarding the OEM lousy chrome finish. I hadn't really thought about it before.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2015 :  10:41:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage
I am very pleased with totally stainless' kit. Theirs for my truck was top notch and covered fasteners i wouldn't have even thought of.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

844 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2015 :  11:49:30 AM  Show Profile
These cars from the 70s are interesting. We can now compare the manufacturing of these old cars to today's vehicles.

The manufacturing tolerances and assembly today is far superior to what is was 35+ years ago. During my ownership of this TA which starts in May 1979 (one of the last Pontiac 400s), I've experienced many things working and maintaining this car. One of the things is the mixing of SAE thread with metric. You would of thought that everything would be SAE. So, to work on it, I've had to have SAE sockets and wrenches as well as metric stuff on hand. Frustrating at times but I learned to live with that nuance.

While reinstalling the windshield wiper motor to the firewall this morning, I cleared the cowl area that was laden with "stuff." Tools, cans, papers, a few washers...that kind of thing. It became evident that the cowl area was in excellent condition. It was cleaned up and looks great. Looking further, I could see how sloppy the manufacturing process was at the plant. On the driver's side of the car where the fender bolts to the firewall, I discovered a large number 29, signifying that yes, this was paint code #29. Looking more closely, I could see, that up by the windshield area, the color tan (actually camel tan) which is the color of the dash board and interior was sprayed on to the cowl area and inch or so beyond the windshield glass.

As far as I can figure, the body was painted nocturne blue first. Then the interior was installed which included the camel tan paint or dye that spread below the windshield which was not installed yet. Some time afterwards, the gloss, yes gloss black was applied to the cowl area and firewall. Seam sealer was previously applied when the exterior of the body was sprayed because it is coated with #29. The seam along the firewall and cowl area is black, but is not completely black. There are areas where blue can be seen, especially out by the fenders. In fact, the cowl is no completely black the black fades into blue as it nears the fenders.

During my recent car show visit where I took photos of the TA/TA. That firewall had been re-painted. It was not glossy like mine and the paint was consistent from one side of the car spanning across to the other side--fender to fender.

Up until 60 minutes ago it was my intention of re-painting the cowl area. After my examination, I'm leaving it as is. The paint is in very good shape, buffs up nicely and oddly, I like the factory inconsistency with nocturne blue and camel paint showing under close inspection.

The other thing I discovered, Cort, is that the box of SS fastener contained a bag of screws to install the windshield wiper motor. However, they were different. The ones used to mount my motor are machine screw whereas the ones provided in SS were sheet metal screws. I re-used the factory screws. I expect this to happen frequently. Everything unused will be kept and if there's enough left over, I'll offer them up to a needy Pontiac enthusiast.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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