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rad400
Cochise
USA
633 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 09:29:05 AM
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| Hey Bill I like the new layout of the forum. Nicely done. I know there was problems with the water cooler section I didn't know if we could have a general place to share stories and other hobbies with out the bad topics. Just wondering. |
Conrad
79 Trans Am 400 auto Crower 60210 Torker II Holley 750 vac sec. #12 heads,3500 stall. |
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)
USA
1593 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 10:00:51 AM
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Conrad, the water cooler was an experiment. It was launched preceding or during the Presidential campaign. It got out of control. People were strongly opinionated and that led to some pretty harsh words and behavior.
There have been some non Pontiac, off topics permitted on the Resto and Performance section. Much of that is again testing the waters to determine whether a general discussion area should be tried again. As a trial attorney, and one involved with prosecuting and defending criminal cases, the nature of the case could easily interfere with one's principles and beliefs. Those can take over a prosecution and defense and color the interests of justice. Many of us, not all, learn to curb our personal beliefs, pursue matters at hand, and act civil to opposing counsel and the court, despite being personally frustrated and annoyed at what is happening. It's hard to do. On occasion I let my frustration be known to opposing counsel and the court. However, it was always done with respect and in a dignified manner. Unfortunately, it's very easy for people who are under no structure or recognized structure of behavior (Bar Rules and Ethics) to let it all hang out and rudely comment, ridicule, and tick off others with opposing views as happened in the Water Cooler.
With the politics of the day. It is prime for people to take sides and to raise their emotions quickly. The 2000 page Health Care Bill is one sorry topic. Opening the Water Cooler without being able to control people's emotions about this topic and others, like spending, and unemployment, the War on Terrorism etc...would create a rhubarb. People with Pontiacs in common would begin to detest one another. That would, in my opinion, not be good.
As always, I am receptive to others opinions, and will consider arguments in favor of opening the Water Cooler up again. However, in order for this to happen, I may need to install moderators who can help me keep things under control. There must also be a way of determining when a person has stepped over the line, so to speak. Loss of privilege, or suspension, may be a way to keep things in check. There are a lot of pitfalls to consider.
Anyone with a an opinion on this should express them. So, I am going to edit the name of this thread and open the issue for current discussion on whether to create a new Water Cooler.
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"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."
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rad400
Cochise
USA
633 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 11:44:03 AM
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| Just was hoping to have on without politics. So people could post hobbies, favorite bands, song etc. toy car collecting ect. |
Conrad
79 Trans Am 400 auto Crower 60210 Torker II Holley 750 vac sec. #12 heads,3500 stall. |
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Mr. P-Body
Running Bear
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 1:05:01 PM
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Other sites have a "lobby" for this purpose. Any stupid political name-calling ends up either GONE or in another "special" forum. It takes some "policing" to make it happen. Sometimes, the attitude or beliefs of the "policeman" also gets involved. Tough thing, for sure.
I'm all for it. I promise to "be good". That doesn't mean I'll roll over and "play dead" for someone that just yells louder, though. Had my fill of that since I moved to the East Coast (we call it "peacock syndrome"). People out West get shot for less... Perhaps that's WHY they're more civil to each other.
Jim |
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Brian R
Cochise
USA
862 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 2:17:39 PM
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I say leave it Pontiac for the sake of peace and to keep this an enjoyable place to talk Pontiac.
I was surely one of the gladiators in what became the coliseum. I am not proud of this and I would not get involved again - I say that now with ease........would I not???
Human nature Bill - you understand it well having been a lawyer. It will get ugly again.
That's my 2c's - thanks for hearing it.
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dgray
Cochise
437 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 2:58:59 PM
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| I didn't mind the water cooler because I saw what it was and stayed away from it just like I do Fox News. I don't care much for the splash over a few weeks ago but again, I stayed away. I learned long ago that being loud or in the majority does not necessarily make you right. There are plenty of other places on the net where you can shoot off your mouth about most anything you want. I come to this site because I like Pontiacs. Period. |
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps
USA
1303 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 5:26:25 PM
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| A lobby with no politics or things to do with personal beliefs would be ok. I see most folks here as friends even though I have met only a few. Being able to ask a friends advice on something would be preferable to asking a stranger to find out info on something. |
It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important |
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jbush301
Sitting Bull
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 5:38:10 PM
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| Keep it Pontiac! Let's go somewhere else to vent about the Government. |
Run it hard til it break, Fix it, Then Run it harder til it break again! |
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Taman
Cochise
USA
583 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 5:53:01 PM
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I liked the water cooler. No one here knows me well enough for any name calling to bother me. I ignored it. It is my opinion that matters to me. If I don't like what is said, I change the channel.
Thanks for a great Pontiac site. I also love the redesign. Thanks. |
Everything Under The Sun Is Intune |
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster
306 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 8:04:40 PM
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Guys--I've read all the posts so far and see that quite a few people are curious to read it.
Certainly the safest bet is to have no "lobby" or general discussion area.
Having a section to go to that would provide a comfortable place to go to discuss things that are not political could be a good thing. Again, it might work if there was good guidance setting out what is appropriate and what is not. The use of moderators to monitor the section would be helpful too. A moderator would have the privilege to warn, modify and remove inappropriate comments, images etc.
Bill
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"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive." |
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Christ
Crazy Horse
USA
1295 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 9:16:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
Guys--I've read all the posts so far and see that quite a few people are curious to read it.
Certainly the safest bet is to have no "lobby" or general discussion area.
Having a section to go to that would provide a comfortable place to go to discuss things that are not political could be a good thing. Again, it might work if there was good guidance setting out what is appropriate and what is not. The use of moderators to monitor the section would be helpful too. A moderator would have the privilege to warn, modify and remove inappropriate comments, images etc.
Bill
Bill if you need a hand monitoring it let me know. |
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Vid
Cochise
USA
581 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 10:25:10 PM
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I vote keep it Pontiac, but if the water cooler reopens, I don't have to read or reply to it, so have fun!  |
""I'll get around to that NEXT weekend..."
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Phil
Great White Buffalo
3181 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 11:15:28 PM
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I don't care either way. I could, as a random example have a heated disagreement with P-Body and still have no reservations about taking my engine work to him. And from what I have come to know of Jim, he would have no problems/issues having me for a customer.
The problems arise from the actors with "keyboard muscles" who have the uncontrolled urge to disrupt or otherwise create havoc wherever they go.
Vid makes a good point. If someone gets offended or doesn't like it, they don't have to go there in the first place. |
Bowties are for Peewee Herman |
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mike389
Big Trees
USA
201 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 01:06:07 AM
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the cooler without politics would work, to get the truth on every aspect of the news i watch FOX NEWS CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!! found that most people don't no much about politics for lack of investigating the subject at hand
mike |
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dgray
Cochise
437 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 06:42:03 AM
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| most of em dont no much about spelin or punkuashun neither |
Edited by - dgray on 27 Feb 2010 06:42:51 AM |
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster
306 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 07:24:47 AM
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Fox resembles Simon P. Cowell in many ways. As they are both sarcastic, brash, highly opinionated and relentless in what they do. And just like Simon Cowell, Fox news is not just mostly correct, but decisively correct. Besides, the Fox channels employ a gaggle of articulate, very attractive, highly intelligent and educated, women contributors. Viewers of Fox don't not have to type korectly to possess good comon cents.
[Is this a political comment or a non-political comment? Would you allow this kind of controversial statement to continue in a non-political Water Cooler? Is this going to incite PSP participants into bashing one another??? Is it too close for comfort?] As Bill O'Reilly would state, "What say you??????" State your pithy comments....
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"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive." |
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Mr. P-Body
Running Bear
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 10:09:34 AM
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Bill,
Regardless of the reality, it WILL be misconstrued as a political comment. Just the fact that one particular news "agency" has been singled out for "the truth" illustrates it cannot work. IMO, Fox is strictly a mouthpiece for the "right wing". All the "stories" revolve around promoting one agenda and tearing down another. I TRIED to be objective. Since they are not, I couldn't watch it. Most of the main-stream "media" has moved on from the polarization and back into "normal" news, like earthquakes, olympics, etc. At least HNN (which we watch to see what has happened at night while we were sleeping) avoids the finger-pointing and name-calling. Can't say about other channels. I don't consider "talk shows" from ANY "angle" as "news".
Now, "watch" as my comments are miscontsrued to mean I'm a "lib" or other such derogetory term as I don't subscribe to popular tripe (from EITHER "side").
Jim |
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dgray
Cochise
437 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 11:07:47 AM
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| My point exactly. Sometimes it's hard to stand by and just listen to the bull from both sides without getting caught up in the middle of it all. If I want Rupert Murdoc to spoon feed me the truth as he and the rest of those knuckle draggers see it, I will tune in to Fox. From the looks of the last water cooler it should have been the the Hush Windbag fan club. (as my little sister refers to Rush Limbaugh) And being from Indiana I am not proud of our retiring gutless senator. And another thing - they can hang Rangell's ass too, because the drug companies in New York have owned him for years. I have always voted for Richard Lugar but never for any Bushes or McCains. I don't jump on any bandwagon. We all need to figure out who the talking heads on the boob tube are speaking FOR instead of who they are speaking to, because it usually isn't us they are speaking for. |
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Vid
Cochise
USA
581 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 11:25:08 AM
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| Oh shoot. Here you said you might open the water cooler and I had a plastic tumbler ready and waiting next to my monitor. Dog gone it. |
""I'll get around to that NEXT weekend..."
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mike389
Big Trees
USA
201 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 11:35:32 AM
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mr. p-body
the people like me that watch Fox News for the most part know the format of their shows! the hard news about every 1/2 hr. 5 min. segments, sheppard smith week days one hr. show, news like in Haiti is covered extensively,and people like O'Reilly have guests from all political venues, libs are on with conservatives all the time so to say it is a mouth piece for one party is very incorrect, my blood pressure will attest to that when the libs are speaking which is every day i watch!!!! also non political guest's!!! it would be boring trying to watch 24 hrs. of repeated news on other channels! Fox ratings are through the roof, they beat cnn and msnbc hands down together! now back to PONTIAC'S
regards
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps
USA
1303 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 11:48:27 AM
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| I like Fox because they say what I want to hear. :) I would also volunteer to moderate. |
It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important |
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster
306 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 12:16:32 PM
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Well, that didn't take long. Simply addressing Fox news raises the ire in people. Were my comments political? Close enough.
Okay--so to have a new Water Cooler we'd have to make some things off limits.
The US SUPREME COURT. All news coverage. Anything that deals with new laws, possible laws, old laws, anything that deals with the CIA, FBI, Treasury, The FED, SEIU, ACORN, all unions, OBAMA, BIDEN, all past presidents, all the wanna-be legislators, in Congress and hopefuls seeking election, all judges, anything dealing with race, religion, pro-life or abortion, education, transit authorities, global warming/ global cooling, the meaning of life, marriage, gay marriage, gay rights, mistreatment of terrorists, mistreatment of criminals who may or may not be terrorists, the mistreatment of drunks or allegedly drivers, police brutality, military brutality, collateral damage,....The laundry list goes on.
Hey, what does this leave available?
Music, movies, theater, art, coin, stamp and butterfly collecting, horse shoe pitching, baseball, football, books, book reviews, favorite foods, favorite brews, favorite actors/actresses, dogs cats and other pets....
Is it possible to carve out proper guidelines and "safe" topics?  |
"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive." |
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mike389
Big Trees
USA
201 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 12:54:36 PM
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hey bill
sorry about that post! a non political water cooler is still an excellent idea, and the new format is great!
thanks
mike |
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Mr. P-Body
Running Bear
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 2:30:21 PM
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See??? At least Mike Mc. tells the truth about WHY he likes Fox... No rationalization there! I know others that freely aknoweledge such desparities in their personal views. Others dig in like an Alabama tick... Mike and I seldom agree on the trivial aspects of politics, but we're both Americans FIRST. He and I have talked about this face to face. If we have to choose between our "views" (I'm not a party member of ANY party except the next New Year's Eve party...) and our country, our country wins EVERY TIME. We are both proud veterans. Neither of us served in combat (Mike, jr. has). But we DID serve. And we didn't serve the Democrats OR the Republicans, we served AMERICANS!
I'll stop here, as I feel my soapbox moving closer...
Jim |
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Phil
Great White Buffalo
3181 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 2:41:42 PM
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| Bill, you forgot basketweaving. |
Bowties are for Peewee Herman |
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster
306 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 3:16:34 PM
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YEP, basket weaving is a safe topic. Could you be the moderator of that topic should it get a little too controversial Phil?
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"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive." |
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Phil
Great White Buffalo
3181 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 5:00:23 PM
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| Sure thing, I'll take one for the team! |
Bowties are for Peewee Herman |
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Vid
Cochise
USA
581 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 5:22:02 PM
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Bill, why not do the Water Cooler as the "safe" non PMD forum and add The Parking Lot as the "gloves off" anything goes forum.
Having owned a cowboy bar for a few years, most intense discussions end up "in the parking lot".
Phil, I have a fantastic round reed picnic basket weave I'd like to share with the forum:
Material List
12 Hoop 1
#2 Round Reed
#5 Round Reed
3/8 Flat Oval Reed
2 small brass hinges
LMFAO |
""I'll get around to that NEXT weekend..."
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Taman
Cochise
USA
583 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 7:40:34 PM
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| I don't mind the politics. I know I'm right and you are all full of it. :0 If someone gets out of control, suspend them. If it happens again, ban them. It's the personal attacks that shouldn't be tolerated. Kind of like the one post above. But I won't mention names :) Having an opinion is fine but, slamming someone for it is just wrong. I am a Republican, but not a far right wing nut. I consider myself a liberal conservative. Both sides have good ideas. Just not the ones in office. Far right or left doesn't work. Too narrow minded for me. |
Everything Under The Sun Is Intune |
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Phil
Great White Buffalo
3181 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 8:13:13 PM
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I think Bill has a good point about this being a Pontiac forum, and doesn't want its members turning on each other which ultimately harms the hobby.
Also, the free for all atmosphere demands more time and energy from the moderator(s), which is a big check mark in the "negatives" column IMHO. |
Bowties are for Peewee Herman |
Edited by - Phil on 27 Feb 2010 8:15:48 PM |
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67drake
Cochise
226 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 8:43:45 PM
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| Vid,"The parking lot" LMAO. |
71' GTO Original 400 M20 3.23 posi
Still slow,but getting faster |
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RayK
Cochise
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 9:27:54 PM
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| Bill,,, I think it would be cool to have a place to talk music or whatever. A place we collectively could go to for advice on certain issues or just to talk about whatever but I do agree that politics should be left out because there are some who do get emotional shall we say and no matter what you do that part of it isn't going to change. |
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps
USA
1303 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 10:32:22 PM
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| Jim you are right on. |
It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important |
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Cobrabill
Talking Dog
Aruba
1372 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 10:45:22 PM
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OK.......Think of this as Bill Boyles Pontiac cyber-pub.THe only difference being you can't just walk in and have a beer(at least not physically).Now think of what would you say if you walked into your favorite watering hole and they handed you a listed a topics that you COULD NOT discuss while sitting at the bar with your buddies.THe web is no different.
P-body might want to talk about how much he loves his Virginia Hillbilly neighbors.Christ might want to talk about KISS.Ray might want to tell everyone how much he likes Yanni.Phil might want to talk about that intentionally blank look on his face.I might want to talk about getting Phil some professional help.
Remember,NO-ONE has a right to be "NOT insulted".If you don't like the topic,DON'T OPEN IT!!!ANd if we get the "cooler" back and yer a thin skinned liberal-DON'T go in there".
At the risk of comparisons,9 out of 10 problems at PY vanished when the clubhouse was added.Food for thought. |
Green grass & high tides forever |
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RayK
Cochise
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 07:47:07 AM
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CB you are right on most counts, however, you know as well as I do there are some folks who just can't let something go. It turns into a battle of keyboards. As I stated it's human nature to want to defend your opinions, especially for those of us who feel very strongly about them. Prevent the situation by not having it? Maybe. Slap somebody on the hand and ban them from the site for awhile? Maybe. Who is to say. It's Bill's choice whether or not he wants to deal with it. See how it's affecting this posting now?
Oh yea. I'm not a liberal, nor do I care for them, I lean towards the right. |
Edited by - RayK on 28 Feb 2010 07:49:23 AM |
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Cobrabill
Talking Dog
Aruba
1372 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 08:02:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RayK
CB you are right on most counts,
I'm right about YANNI?!!!!! |
Green grass & high tides forever |
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Christ
Crazy Horse
USA
1295 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 09:00:04 AM
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Oh yea. I'm not a liberal, nor do I care for them, I lean towards the right.
[/quote]
They do makes show to correct a short leg. Try pairs womens High Heals.
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pete w
Cochise
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 09:30:46 AM
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| ike said you don't lead by beating people over the head. that is assault not leadership. that is what happens in political discussion. one group will beat the other over the head. no good comes of it you aren't going to change the others minds. as we have seen here they will not agree to disagree.it breaks down to name calling. i see name calling to mean you have lost the argument but won't admit it.i say no new water cooler jmo. |
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Cobrabill
Talking Dog
Aruba
1372 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 12:04:52 PM
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| Pete-who is pointing a gun at you? |
Green grass & high tides forever |
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps
USA
1303 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 2:25:43 PM
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| CB, where ya been, long lunch? |
It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important |
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WDCreech
Sitting Bull
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 2:33:26 PM
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I would like to see an Around The Water Cooler forum, but with the restriction of absolutely no discussions involving Race, Religion, or Politics. At first, I thought maybe allow informational posts on any of those subjects, but there will always be opposing views, and then we're at war again.
Just my $.02 |
Bill
64 tube chassis GTO, 606 cu" IA tall deck, Superchief heads, glide, 2750lbs, 8.2550 @ 164.17, 1.1981-60'
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Cobrabill
Talking Dog
Aruba
1372 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 2:55:50 PM
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| Mike-playin' with trains. |
Green grass & high tides forever |
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Phil
Great White Buffalo
3181 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 3:20:27 PM
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| ...blank stare... |
Bowties are for Peewee Herman |
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Taman
Cochise
USA
583 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 4:55:10 PM
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| WDcreech, I thought you said posting anything about race. What's up with the wheel stand? Looks good. I'm jealous. |
Everything Under The Sun Is Intune |
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Phil
Great White Buffalo
3181 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 6:28:39 PM
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| Yeah but look, it's leaning to the right. |
Bowties are for Peewee Herman |
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Kiwi Mal
Cochise
New Zealand
551 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2010 : 12:00:49 AM
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quote:
Yeah but look, it's leaning to the right.
Thats because he has got one wheel up on that sign
Sorry WD, couldn't resist
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WDCreech
Sitting Bull
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2010 : 12:36:30 AM
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Phil, I think it "leans to the right" because the right rear shock needs to be stiffened, but I don't want to take a chance on it not leaving straight, so I haven't messed with it.
Taman, That's just the way it leaves.
Kiwi Mal, No sign here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr91bkO7bjM |
Bill
64 tube chassis GTO, 606 cu" IA tall deck, Superchief heads, glide, 2750lbs, 8.2550 @ 164.17, 1.1981-60'
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)
USA
1593 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 09:47:58 AM
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Here's what happening.
I will create a new Water Cooler category. However, it will be restricted to topics that do not address politics. This means polls concerning the economy, differences of opinion on healthcare, abortion, affirmative action, religion, race, and anything referencing any presidential administration (past or present), any reference to socialism, progressives, communism, liberals, conservatives, Glen Beck, Hannity, Keith Olberman, Fox News, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN and their news coverage or type of coverage concerning any event other than sports, hobbies, movies, music, sitcoms, theater is prohibited.
The new category will be to discuss issues other than controversial matters above. This means topics and subjects that any non-pontiac subject (Ford/Plymouth/Buick/Chevy/Dodge etc); dealing with projects and issues around the house, e.g. how to remove ceramic tile, installing a water heater, repair a toilet, hiring a subcontractor, working with various tools of any kind, outfitting garages are okay. It can deal with writing resumes, getting a job, going to school, you name it. The list of non-political non-Pontiac related matters and subjects is exhaustive.
The purpose of the new category is to provide a forum where many of you can go to ask for help on various matters without being criticized or ridiculed for asking. No one on the planet knows everything. If you think you do, don't post.
All posts must be friendly and diplomatic. If you don't have something "nice to say" as my mom used to tell me, don't comment or post anything.
As always, no swearing and profanity is permitted.
Warning: If this new category becomes too burdensome for me to monitor and the selected moderators (if any) can't help me do the job, it will be permanently closed with no hope of resurrecting it. It will not be left up, but removed completely from the database.
Why am I doing this???? Because you are Pontiac enthusiasts. Pontiac enthusiasts pull together and share their hobby experiences very well. I believe you can abide by the rules set out here and still have lots of fun.
Bill Boyle |
"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."
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Edited by - Bill Boyle on 05 Mar 2010 09:49:46 AM |
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mike mcarthur
Pony that Jumps
USA
1303 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 11:13:28 AM
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| All right, you two know who you are, now don't mess it up again. :) |
It's the stuff you learn after you know it all that's important |
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Christ
Crazy Horse
USA
1295 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 3:55:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mike mcarthur
All right, you two know who you are, now don't mess it up again. :)
Hmmmm look sup and thinks to self. |
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What about a New Water Cooler section?
