Pontiac Street Performance
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password

 All Forums
 Pontiac Performance
 Tempest / Lemans / GTOs
 Why no 1972 Le Mans/Sport 4 door hardtops?
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author  Topic Next Topic  

Douglas Willinger
Sitting Bull

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2018 :  7:48:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

In researching the Pontiac Le Mans 4 door no-b-pillar hardtops, I see that Pontiac only offered such in 1972 as the "Luxury" Le Mans with the fender skirts.

I see that Pontiac offered that body style in 1970 and 1971 as a Le Mans and as a Le Mans Sport, but why not for 1972?

Indeed, for 1972 Pontiac offered le Mans Sport 2 door no-b-pillar hardtops and convertibles, but not the 4 door no-b-pillar, which was only offered in the "Luxury" Le Mans, which was offered also as a 2 door hardtop, but not as a convertible.

Why?

As the "Luxury" Le Mans was not offered with the T-41 nose option, Pontiac missed the opportunity too combine it on a 4 door hardtop, which was a rare combination in 1971 that appeared in none of the factory literature that I have seen..

Corncob2061
Cochise

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2018 :  12:23:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is odd. Looks like the Luxury Lemans was intended to be a line on its own versus being and option on a lemans. But the Sport hood and enduro nose was an option on a lemans wagon like Jim Hands car. Then the 72 gto became an option on an option on a Lemans. I think other A body style that did not get the hood and nose treatment was the 71 t37. Looks like they made a 4 door t37 too, post only though. Jay

Edited by - Corncob2061 on 10 Sep 2018 12:25:57 AM
Go to Top of Page

Douglas Willinger
Sitting Bull

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2018 :  01:43:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Corncob2061

It is odd. Looks like the Luxury Lemans was intended to be a line on its own versus being and option on a lemans. But the Sport hood and enduro nose was an option on a lemans wagon like Jim Hands car. Then the 72 gto became an option on an option on a Lemans. I think other A body style that did not get the hood and nose treatment was the 71 t37. Looks like they made a 4 door t37 too, post only though. Jay



Yes, as the Luxury Le Mans has its own vin prefix, "G" rather than the "D" of the other Le Mans cars.

It would help to see the production figures for the various Le Mans body styles from the previous years.

I know about the "King Monk" 1971 T-41 455 Le Mans 4 door hardtop:

"John?s second Pontiac is even freakier. A ?71 LeMans Sport four-door hardtop (no center pillar), also built at the Fremont plant and special-ordered by Warren ?Monk? King for his Monk King Pontiac dealership in Denton, Texas, it?s known as the Monk King Four-Door GTO because it was ordered with the T41 Endura styling option, which consisted of the GTO hood and Endura bumper. Other factory options include the L75 455 four-barrel engine, a Turbo 400, dual exhaust, Safe-T-Track differential, power front-disc brakes, Rally gauges, hood tachometer, honeycomb wheels, white-letter tires, power seats, and power windows and locks. According to Pontiac historian Fred Simmonds, only 30 LeMans Sports were ordered with both the L75 455 four-barrel and the T41 Endura styling option, but there is no breakdown of how many were installed in four-door sedans and hardtops. In addition, only 11 four-door LeMans Sport hardtops received the L75 455 powerplant."

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp-1005-1969-pontiac-firebird-1970-pontiac-lemans/

I know that Pontiac was reducing the number of models, but why no 1972 Le Mans Sport 4 door hardtop?

And, as the T-41 nose would physically bolt to any of the body styles, why would Pontiac discontinue the T-41 option on the non wagon 4 door cars?

That T-41 nose, especially with the new for 1972 fender air extractors would look good on the 4 door hardtop.
Go to Top of Page

Douglas Willinger
Sitting Bull

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2018 :  8:45:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Corncob2061

It is odd. Looks like the Luxury Lemans was intended to be a line on its own versus being and option on a lemans. But the Sport hood and enduro nose was an option on a lemans wagon like Jim Hands car. Then the 72 gto became an option on an option on a Lemans. I think other A body style that did not get the hood and nose treatment was the 71 t37. Looks like they made a 4 door t37 too, post only though. Jay





I have never seen a 1972 4 door post T-41, except as a wagon.

Notably the 1972 Luxury Le Mans 4 door hardtop was overwhelmingly Pontiac's best selling ever (1966-1972) 4 door hardtop.

Pontiac A body intermediate 4 door hardtop production figures: 1966-1972

1966: Tempest Custom 10,996 + LeMans 13,897 = 24,893

1967: Tempest Custom 5,483 + LeMans 8,424= 13,907

1968: Temopest Custom 6,147+ LeMans 9,002= 15,049

1969: Tempest Custom 3918 + LeMans 6475= 10,393

1970: LeMans 3,872+ LeMans Sport 3,657= 7,529

1971: LeMans 3,186+ LeMans Sport 2,451= 5,637

1972: Luxury LeMans 37,615

Pontiac's failure to produce a 4 door hardtop as a Le Mans Sport, and their cheapening of the GTO to make its bench un-avaiable in the split
with fold down center armrest style, coupled with changing the seat covers yearly is unfortunate to anyone seeking to create such with the complete 1972 styling. Also unfortunate was Pontiac not offering the Luxury Le Mans split-foldable center armrest bench in blue unless the version with the cloth inserts, plus that of no blue for that year's bucket seats.

Also, why did Pontiac limit the optional 455 HO only to 2 door cars?
Go to Top of Page

Corncob2061
Cochise

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2018 :  12:11:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The performance group at the time at Pontiac must have not thought there was a market for a round port sedan. They did have a big increase in hardtop 4 drs with the intro of the of luxury lemans 4 dr hardtop in 72.

So it looks like your best looking combo inside and out is a 71? Jay

Go to Top of Page

Douglas Willinger
Sitting Bull

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2018 :  1:55:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Corncob2061

The performance group at the time at Pontiac must have not thought there was a market for a round port sedan. They did have a big increase in hardtop 4 drs with the intro of the of luxury lemans 4 dr hardtop in 72.

So it looks like your best looking combo inside and out is a 71? Jay





I see here that Pontiac was adhering to that weird and unjustifiable restriction for 1973:

http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/pontiac/73pga/bilder/5.jpg

Yes, the best looking *factory* 4 door hardtop combo was the 1971 Le Mans Sport T-41, ala the Monk King car.

But one can always add the T-41 nose, or the 1970 GTO nose to any 1970-1972 Le Mans variant 4 door hardtop themselves...

Likewise with a round port engine....

What parts would had the factory needed for offering such, asides from a 4" or so longer exhaust system?

Edited by - Douglas Willinger on 16 Sep 2018 4:27:00 PM
Go to Top of Page

Corncob2061
Cochise

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2018 :  08:30:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can not think of much of anything a standard d port 455 did better than a round port 455. All the companies were headed too the cookie cutter corporate engine platforms though.

I think I know of a set of 71 or 72 round port heads for around 1200 to 1400. Someone started porting on them and quit, they need finished. Problably why no one has bought them. Jay
Go to Top of Page

Douglas Willinger
Sitting Bull

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2018 :  4:36:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Corncob2061

I can not think of much of anything a standard d port 455 did better than a round port 455. All the companies were headed too the cookie cutter corporate engine platforms though.

I think I know of a set of 71 or 72 round port heads for around 1200 to 1400. Someone started porting on them and quit, they need finished. Probably why no one has bought them. Jay



Indeed, as "Someone started porting on them and quit" almost always means a partial, non professional porting quite likely to generally reduce performance, without somehow adding new material to the heads to compensate for the excess material removed.

Go to Top of Page

Douglas Willinger
Sitting Bull

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2018 :  4:42:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The first 1972 Le Mans 4 door I have seen with the T-41 endura GTO style front. It's a post sedan. Located in South Africa:

https://www.gumtree.co.za/a-classic-vintage-cars/sasolburg/pontiac-le-mans-1972/1002877565130910216474809


Date Listed 04/09/2018
Location
Sasolburg, Free State
For Sale By Owner

1972 Pontiac Le Mans,Left hand drive, V8, rare 4 door with "endura" front end as used on the 72 GTO(Factory option). Great running condition, papers in order, negotiable R125000. Contact Deon 0832960663

---

Could someone please drop this listing's three photos into a reply - as I have yet to be able to figure out how to do that on this site. Thanks!



Edited by - Douglas Willinger on 21 Sep 2018 4:45:24 PM
Go to Top of Page

Corncob2061
Cochise

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2018 :  11:25:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[URL=http://s350.photobucket.com/user/jaystukenholtz/media/56e13bf4-1afa-4038-87b3-8a3365cd863c_zpsikauwfnr.jpg.html][/URL]



[URL=http://s350.photobucket.com/user/jaystukenholtz/media/7cb30d83-7369-43fc-aa15-390f2aecd26e_zpsus3ipmoq.jpg.html][/URL]

Edited by - Corncob2061 on 23 Sep 2018 10:42:59 PM
Go to Top of Page

Douglas Willinger
Sitting Bull

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2018 :  11:53:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Corncob2061

[URL=http://s350.photobucket.com/user/jaystukenholtz/media/56e13bf4-1afa-4038-87b3-8a3365cd863c_zpsikauwfnr.jpg.html][/URL]



Thanks!

Would love to know the story of such a car ending up in South Africa.
Go to Top of Page
   Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Pontiac Street Performance © 2006-2017 Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.17 seconds. This Site Sponsored By:
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05