Pontiac Street Performance
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password

 All Forums
 General Discussion
 THE NEUTRAL ZONE
 The Future of the Boy Scouts of America
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  07:41:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My family has been associated with the BSA for many years. Our youngest son wanted to become a Cub Scout then became a Boy Scout. He found scouting fun and worked diligently to earn a variety of merit badges. He learned a great deal along the way and attained Eagle Scout before turning 16 years of age. He is 32 now and remains active with BSA. He played a large role in getting his older brother involved with Cub Scouts. Our youngest is the Pack's Cubmaster and his brother is a Den Leader. My wife was also a Den Leader when our youngest was going through Cub Scouting.

Recently the BSA's top leadership announced they would be changing the long held policy of having an all boys scouting program by allowing girls to be scouts within the BSA. They could go through the various scouting levels to attain the highest level--Eagle Scout.

While my two sons have yet to voice their opinion on the subject, my opinion is old school. Baden Powell, the founder of Boy Scouts, could not have foreseen an organization that would some day include females. I don't believe that allowing females into the Boy Scouts is a good thing. I do believe it will cause more problems that will discourage boys from participating in scouting programs and it will seriously degrade the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  09:07:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm torn on this. I'm an eagle scout, as is my brother, and three of us went through the program total in my family. I recall working summer camp and having girls on staff, and i recall some girls during that time winning lawsuits to enter the scouts. So, i thought this was already a thing and just thought no one was interested. Girls in the troop during my formative teen years would have been a distraction for sure. However, chasing girls once guys hit 16 and get a license is what derails many an kid from reaching eagle.

On the other side, i have only a daughter, 6. She's just recently joined girl scouts. GS doesn't have nearly the same depth of adventure or learning as boy scouts. It's like craft time, or they visit places to learn things. She's still young, but i don't see much variance ahead. There's also a limit on troop size, so she can't have any of her friends join her because this troop is "full".

I don't foresee her learning knots, how to build fires, pitch tents, and 99 other skills that boy scouts teach even this early. I'm sad she won't have the adventures i had going through scouts (if she's interested in that at all. Still not sure how the interest in cars is panning out).
Go to Top of Page

Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  10:31:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Girl Scouts are ticked off at the BSA. However, Girl Scouting is limited with its programing. It has been more about fellowship than what Boy Scouting does to build leadership and character etc.

One remedy would be for the Girl Scouts to change their focus, to change their programs to give young girls the chance to learn archery, swimming, and dozens of other learning actives associated with earning merit badges.

There are women who do enjoy these activities and can teach girls how to tie knots, build a camp fire, hike, first aid, etc., etc.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
Go to Top of Page

cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  10:55:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think that's what has lead the BS to this point. IMHO the high point of the BSA was 60s-80s. It has dwindled well before i went through it (90s), where it was considered different or odd to be involved. I think they need members, and i think they see interest since, as you mentioned, girls do want to learn those skills and have a bit more of a challenging program that GS doesn't offer.

On the other hand, the most important thing to teach a girl, IMHO, is confidence, and that will be hard to build in a difficult integration period. In any case, like all kids programs and sports, the adults will be the issue, not the children. If a 7 yr old boy in a scout troop is rude, arrogant, and making it difficult on a girl, i'm sure we can trace it right back to disapproving parents.

My sister caught flack for playing on the boys basketball team since there wasn't a girls team at our school. She was a good player, and better than some of the boys. Of course that rubbed some players the wrong way, but they should focus on improving then.
Go to Top of Page

NOTROD
Buffalo

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  1:31:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Neither I, nor my two sons, have ever been involved with the Boy Scouts, so I am speaking to this from an outsiders perspective. It's obvious to me that girls joining the BS is all about the "gender crisis" we seem to be having. If girls have a similar organization, which they do, why wouldn't a girl join that group?

Cort, if there really is concern about lack of opportunity to learn certain skills within the GS, maybe you should consider becoming a troop leader or volunteer to come in and teach your Eagle Scout skills to the girls.
Go to Top of Page

cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  4:29:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Girls do not have a similar organization, Girl Scouts is similar in name only. I don't see this as new, I recall troops having the odd female here or there, and girls could join boy scouts some point in their teens as venture scouts, which consider members not adult leaders until about 21 i believe. Couldn't get eagle scout rank though.

To your second point, you are assuming they want those skills, and want to be that type of organization. That's like saying "well, if the protestants aren't doing catholic stuff, just go to protestant churches and teach them those things" You're missing the point that they're into what they're doing in girl scouts, don't want to push those skills, and GS sees no desire to change for the few that could or would want to do more.

Most are not in girl scouts to learn knots, how to survive outdoors alone overnight, how to shoot a rifle, etc. I have offered what you said, as has another local eagle dad, but you really do water down the skills, and that'd be like teaching bootcamp but only on the weekends and no service afterwards. Would hardly be the same as those who go through the whole program and off to war right?

I am sure there are girl scout troops who have been white water rafting, or mountain climbing, but i'd bet they're the minority, and i'd bet there are plenty of girls who'd love to do and thrive in those environments.

Like i said, i'm split, but not because of the points you mention, but because we almost had a girl in our troop when i was a teen, and i remember that moment well (she lost interest). Like i mentioned with my sister playing basketball: she had tough skin and had fun, it was the boys who had the issue. In scouts, we're supposed to teach character, and the right character would to teach the boys to do better. But i was a boy, an average guy, and i know boys don't change overnight. But if you don't start, change never happens? Tough having a daughter in the world.
Go to Top of Page

Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  9:50:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just returned from a Spaghetti Dinner fund raiser held at the church that is the main sponsor of the Pack and Dens my sons are involved with. Lots of people there and lots of "sisters." Everyone had a fun time as it was quite family oriented.

There was some discussion of the topic at our table and my boys aren't sure what the true guidelines will be coming down from the top of BSA. One of my sons speculated that the church could have significant input on whether the Pack will be "only" boys or boys and girls. Whatever the situation, things will get complicated before things get ironed out.


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
Go to Top of Page

NOTROD
Buffalo

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  10:25:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Boys need a place where they can be boys and girls need a place where they can be girls. Change just so we can feel like we are "progressing" isn't always good. I applaud the Girl Scouts for saying "thanks, but no thanks".
Go to Top of Page

Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3405 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2017 :  12:47:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My girls were Brownees and Girl Scouts. They discovered they were doing mostly fund raising and very little fun stuff. They both decided on there own to quit.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
Go to Top of Page

NOTROD
Buffalo

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2017 :  1:37:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Camp Fire is also an option. They have been coed since the mid-70's.
I think B&P's statement about fund raising is key here. As with most large nationally recognized/sponsored organizations, money is all that really matters. Principles are pushed to the side if needed.
Go to Top of Page

Cobrabill
Talking Dog

Aruba
3128 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2017 :  10:23:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got thrown out of the Boy Scouts.

Go to Top of Page

NOTROD
Buffalo

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2017 :  11:42:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cobrabill

I got thrown out of the Boy Scouts.




I've only been a member on this forum for a few years and I can already tell that I should not be surprised by this. Lmao
Go to Top of Page

Cobrabill
Talking Dog

Aruba
3128 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2017 :  12:34:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got thrown out for eating a brownie.

Go to Top of Page

NOTROD
Buffalo

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2017 :  2:49:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Om nom nom...
(Sound of me chewing the bait or CB eating a brownie, readers choice)
Go to Top of Page

Cobrabill
Talking Dog

Aruba
3128 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2017 :  4:06:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hook,line & sinker........ :)

Go to Top of Page

loosetappet
Sitting Bull

113 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2017 :  4:19:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My son is Eagle and we have served in many capacities in Scouting over the years. Don't forget that Venture (14-21) is co-ed and very successful. Some scouts like the advancement but IMO most stay in for the trips and adventures. The most successful troops are the ones who offer a wide variety of campouts, backpacking, and other hi adventure stuff. If a girl likes that sort of thing she will like Scouting.

Change is part of life and we cannot stop it. If the co ed thing doesn't work out then scouting will die a natural death. Social Darwinism in action.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Pontiac Street Performance © 2006-2017 Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.12 seconds. This Site Sponsored By:
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05