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69lemans
Tribal Scout

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  12:22:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We are putting our 68 firebird convertible back together and I ran into an issue with the power steering box. The exhaust manifold is hitting the steering box. The person we bought the car from used a Camaro subframe and had a chevy engine in it. We put a new subframe in and am installing a pontiac 350. We are using the steering box that was in the old subframe so i assume it is Camaro steering box. Is there a difference in the size of a pontiac and chevy steering box or is there a different issue. The exhaust is a stock pontiac log.

Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  1:59:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not sure Tim, but I believe it's not the box but the location of the Pontiac engine versus the SB Chevy. Engine mounts?

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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69lemans
Tribal Scout

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  2:33:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We put in new Pontiac frame mounts and new motor mounts along with the new subframe. The Chevy mounts were totally different. Is there a way to check the engine location measurements?
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  7:33:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tim--GM power steering boxes where used in many different cars in the GM line up. Chevy Camaro and Pontiac FB likely shared the same units, so I can't believe it is the steering box.

What is the measurement from the back of the steering box to the firewall? There should be plenty of room to install the engine. Perhaps one of members with a 68 FB can compare and verify the distance between those two points.

Do you have the steering wheel shaft in place?

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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69lemans
Tribal Scout

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  8:42:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree Bill there are thousands of these things out there you would think it wouldn't be an issue. From the back of the head to the firewall is 2 3/4. It is 6" from the top of the steering box to the firewall. I also measured from firewall to the edge of the first bolt on the steering box. I am attaching pics. The steering box is 5 3/4 from the frame into the engine bay.

https://imageshack.com/i/pnNYkR2Kj

https://imageshack.com/i/poqZwV0cj

https://imageshack.com/i/pmyux1bqj
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  9:44:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The 1st generation Camaro and Firebirds locate the steering box agains the frame close to the firewall--the shaft is short. The 2nd gen Firebirds mount the box close to the radiator core support, away from the engine.

I found a photo of a Camaro SS from 68 that shows the steering box and its location and it is exactly where you have it on you FB. Not only is the location the same, but the SB engine's iron exhaust is touching the steering box just like your 350 FB is doing.

Tight fit is one thing ... but no fit? More on this....

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2017 :  09:13:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ever since my last post, I've been wondering about the location of the engine to the power steering box. To me it doesn't make sense that the log manifold that I saw in the photo of a SBC engine was up against the power steering box...the same dilemma you have Tim. Why in the world would Chevrolet or Pontiac use engine mounts that would not clear the box. I have to wonder if that Camaro SS was factory like that or whether the engine mounts were bad.

It just seems that the engine should be in a different position either higher or positioned more to the passenger side of the car. The next time I attend a car show, I'll be hunting out Camaros to inspect.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3405 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2017 :  11:04:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
GtoGuy32 had an issue with miss match frame horns on his 2 gen
-- http://psp.aquacomp.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10936 --

We must be spoiled by modern computer design programs where clearances can be easily checked before production starts.

First gen anything will have issues, even today



--


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 19 Jul 2017 11:12:56 AM
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69lemans
Tribal Scout

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2017 :  1:42:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any info you can find would be great Bill. I am doing the same thing. I am wondering if the frame mounts are made incorrectly or if the motor mount itself is made wrong. I see a few people on the web saying they have clearance issues but they are all trying to run headers or something non stock. Everything I am using is stock. Thanks for keeping an eye open for possible answers.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2017 :  2:05:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Do you still have the camaro subframe in it? If so, wonder if the difference is there? Is the stock manifold for an F body or maybe from an A or B body? (if there are differences that year)?
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2017 :  2:31:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Found this web site that discusses variations in the Camaro engine mounts. Apparently a bag of worms. Somewhere in this may be something that might be applied in rectifying your situation Tim.

http://pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm

I will continue to do some research and look for Pontiac specific solutions.

Do these engine mounts look like the ones you are using on your Bird?

https://www.ecklers.com/firebird/firebird-mity-mount-engine-mount-400ci-1967-1969-75-363744-1.html

If we can assume that both motor mounts are correct and in the correct hole layout for a Pontiac engine, my only thought is that perhaps there are large enough holes in the subframe /crossover that would allow for the engine to be slightly pushed to the passenger side of the car and away from the steering box.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 19 Jul 2017 3:09:33 PM
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69lemans
Tribal Scout

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2017 :  8:42:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think the manifold would be different from an A body to an F body but now you got me wondering. The block is an original 68 FB 350 block but the manifolds are actually from my 69 Lemans 350. I will do some research on that. The frame mounts are a 2 piece design which is way different than the Camaro. Bill that looks like the same motor mount. We scrapped the Camaro frame it was cracked and beyond any usefulness. I was thinking about loosening the drivers side mount and putting a body shim in there but it just doesn't seem right. Loosening all the bolts and trying to move it to the passenger side may be a good option.
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69lemans
Tribal Scout

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2017 :  06:34:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, it looks like the drivers side manifold is different on a F body. The outlet is more centered as opposed to being on the rear of the manifold . I am going to locate one and see if it makes a difference. You would think it would interfere more with the outlet centered. I'll let you know after I find one.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2017 :  09:40:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good luck and i hope that's the issue! If so, easy fix!

Or, those sweet Ram Air manifolds!
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69lemans
Tribal Scout

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2017 :  8:53:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just got one from Franks. It should be here next week. I'll let you know.
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