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Red Horse
Sitting Bull

202 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2017 :  02:50:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Time to change oil in the Pontiac 350, Can't make up my mind what brand would be best. Whats the general consensus? I trust I am not opening a can of worms.
Rich


Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3405 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2017 :  12:13:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use Valvoline products. Normally a synthetic Blend
I've also used Lucas Hot Rod oil. A 5w or 10w-30 works for me.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2017 :  4:10:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
10w-30w seems to be the consensus. Anything with good zinc really, or add the bottle of zinc during changes. I run brad penn since it's for sale locally, but also have run valvoline. I honestly doubt it really matters as long as it's nice clean oil, and has the flat tappet cam additives.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  07:27:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brad Penn (first choice) OR ZDDP Plus and whatever oil you want (second choice).

It's just too difficult to keep up with the reformulations these days. I still see too many posts on forums recommending Rotella T from folks who have no idea it has changed several times and has not had sufficient ZDDP for flat tappet cams in a while!

Gotta watch these oil companies too because some are using fancy names of labels to imply they are safe for all engines when they are NOT truly backward compatible. A perfect example is Delo 400 LE. It doesn't exist now unless you have a tanker truck-compatible delivery mechanism. Chevron gives you Delo SDE instead, tells you its replaces Delo 400 LE but is better and adds "ISOSYN TECHNOLOGY" to the label, implying its safe for ALL engines. BUT, when I painstakingly research it including calling the technical departments at Chevron, I finally pry out of them it only has 800 ppm of Zinc/Phos!(CK-4)

I just had a huge blowout with a major supplier for our fleet vehicle and equipment oil over all of this nonsense. The suppliers are clueless about our older engines and trying to explain anything to them is like talking to a pile of rocks.

If you're a diesel oil user in your old gas engine thinking your tricking the system, you're only fooling yourself. With the advent of the new CK-4 and even worse, the new FA4 diesel oils you are in for major problems. (And I thought things were bad with CJ-4 diesel oils.)

Pay the money for good, quality oil designed for our older engines. A good rule of thumb these days is if its designed for new engines, run away from it for your older engines. Oils designed for older engines (flat tappet) will almost always not be for new engines these days.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.

Edited by - Phil on 14 Jul 2017 07:41:09 AM
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rkellerjr
Many Feathers

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  07:45:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use Mobil One synthetic and have for many years with mine, no zinc. 10w30.

Rich
1975 TA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR86YT69yeY
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tjs44
Cochise

USA
412 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  09:56:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use 10-30 mobil 1 in all roller cam engines.Any dyno 10-30 with GM EOS in all flat tappet engines.Tom
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  10:34:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Frankly, I'm not sure what brand oil I should use in my TA today. I've used conventional motor oil in the engine since it was purchased 38 + years ago. I've used Mobil 1 in my other cars for years. When I was using conventional oil my business partner with several collector cars ran Mobil 1. That was in the early 80s.

It appears that today's oil formulas especially with synthetics are superior to conventional oil. If this is really the case, synthetic is something we should also use in our older engines. However, the ZDDP issue always pops up. Most engines of today, I believe, don't run flat tappet cams, so the need for a zinc protective coating isn't too important for those engines.

Then there's viscosity. In the distant past my TA engine was lubed with 20W-50 because of the Florida heat. Then I changed to 10W-40 for the most part as the car wasn't living in Florida. Now that Florida is home again, maybe 20W-50 is right again. South Florida winter temperatures are pleasantly warm with lower humidity; summer is hot with high humidity. (Example, humidity this morning was 88% and it wasn't raining).

Again, most 38+ year old Pontiac engines should be able to handle 10W-30 year round or perhaps 10W-40. Guys living in South Texas, Arizona, NM and Death Valley might want to consider 20W-50 like I'm considering because of the scorching summer temperature.

However, the issue is kind of moot for me--car is still in project.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Steve C.
Crazy Horse

1674 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  10:42:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Google 'best engine oil' and you get 1,342,486 replies and opinions :)

"The fact is that virtually every motor oil that is sold these days will deliver ample protection for the types of automobiles that most of us drive. Provided, of course, that the oil is changed on schedule and that the oil meets the automaker's engine requirements."

Personally I use synthetic oil; Mobil-1, Joe Gibbs Driven HR or Red Line.


.


Edited by - Steve C. on 14 Jul 2017 11:02:29 AM
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3405 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  11:25:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you have some extra time, here is an older article, Good info but allot of repetition and hard to decipher.

-- https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/ --

--


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 14 Jul 2017 11:29:40 AM
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loosetappet
Sitting Bull

113 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2017 :  07:20:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is the latest product guide from Mobil 1 -

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2017 :  11:29:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"If you're a diesel oil user in your old gas engine thinking your tricking the system, you're only fooling yourself."

Thank you phil! From bike forums to car forums, i always see the "i know the old rotella trick, cheap at walmart" like they're the only one that knows a secret. It's not a secret, it's a poor idea.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  10:53:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
True, FYI Mobil 1 and most other oils still have zinc (ZDDP) but it's a reduced amount.

Also, roller cams or not, engines still have a need for these critical anti-wear additives. One example, thrust bearings.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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loosetappet
Sitting Bull

113 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2017 :  2:06:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck is 1100 phosphorus, 1300 zinc.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7215 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2017 :  5:22:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes and it's dual rated too. It's a little bit of a mystery as to how it's still high enough in ZDDP AND meets CK-4 standards. But I've been using it in my 7.3 Powerstroke and if nothing else, it's a good fallback for a flat tappet gasser if boutique oil or ZDDP plus isn't on hand.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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deez nuts
Buffalo

67 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2017 :  5:32:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't read all the replies but it is important to note if you have a flat tappet cam or a roller. If you have a flat tappet then you definitely need a high zinc oil. I plan to run Valvoline VR1 in my pontiac with a HFT cam. I've read great things about it and it's reasonably priced on Amazon. A case of six 1 qt bottles is about $37. (non syn)

If you ask me you can't beat that for a good oil that you can run with a flat tappet cam
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421 Bird
Tribal Scout

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  11:18:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use the Lucas Hot Rod oil. Summit will sometimes run a nice sale on it.
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DanM
Buffalo

80 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  09:38:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The most important thing to do is change the oil before it gets dark, use zinc, and maintain decent oil pressure.

If I buy it I get Castrol 20W-50 and add zinc additive.

If my mechanic changes it he uses whatever brand supplies his shop bulk, 20W-50. I give him the zinc additive.

Since our engines are much dirtier than modern engines we don't get to make full use of the synthetics which can go 10,000 miles between changes. Instead our engines will foul the oil with blow-by and stuff. So I've concluded I won't waste the extra money on the expensive synthetics but instead will change frequently, like every 2000 - 3000 miles.

I keep an eye on the color of the oil to make sure I'm changing soon enough to keep it clean but not so frequently that I'm wasting money. Since I drive it 20,000 miles per year this cost almost matters.

And as I said, add zinc.

I use 20W-50 because that gives me good oil pressure. If I use 10W-40 in the summer my idle oil pressure will drop too low for my comfort (~5 psi). And at cruise I'm not even hitting 40 psi. With the 20W-50 my pressure is 10-20 at idle and a solid 50 psi at cruise. Maybe if I had a different oil pump I might consider a 10W-40 or thinner if I could benefit from it. My fuel economy is 12.5 regardless of what oil I use and maybe (maybe) I would gain a couple horsepower at the top end with a lighter oil.

71 LeMans Sport Convertible with 310,000 miles driven year round since 1994.
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DanM
Buffalo

80 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  10:04:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Blued, thanks for the link above. I read several sections. As you said, lots of info.

I saw that my preferred oil, Castrol GTX 20W-50 and 10W-40, scored well at 96,000 psi.

I need to think more about my 20W-50. I agree with the blogger that I would rather have a high volume oil pump with lower weight oil. I will deviate from the bloggers assertions by saying oil pumps are flow sources not pressure sources so the amount of oil that is pumped doesn't increase by using lower weight oils - as long as the oil pressure is low enough with the heavy weight such that the bypass doesn't kick in. Instead, the oil pump will create whatever pressure it needs in order to force the oil through the system.

With fall and winter impending I will switch to 10W-40 to reduce startup wear and then watch the oil pump
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