Pontiac Street Performance
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password

 All Forums
 Pontiac Performance
 1320 (Pontiac Straightline Performance)
 11.49 ET and booted from the track
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

GtoGuy32
Cochise

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2016 :  11:11:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Guys,

I am wondering if some of you can offer your experiences running under 11.50 without a roll cage and what the track officials said and did as a result.

I race at New England dragway and I think they are pretty much by the book if you go under 11.50, they send you to tech. No cage, no race. They might let you come back another day if you say you made some changes....hard to say since it hasn't happened to me.

I think my new engine mods will get me at or below 11.50 this year. It's a great thing since the car will run faster, but bad since I do not want to cage the car and want to race it.

I plan to shake the car down in the early season by running hard in the 1/8 mile and multiplying my time by 1.56 to see where I will land in the 1/4. It will take a couple outings to get the car tuned right anyways.

Assuming I run under 11.50, I was thinking of doing one of the following:

- Add weight to the trunk
- Always run with a full tank of gas (I am already doing so)
- Short shift the car (its a 4 speed)
- launch at a lower RPM to increase my 60 foot time
- Put a smaller carb on engine or really fatten my mixture up
- Restrict throttle opening

I hope the car runs a tenth or two under and I can add a few hundred pounds to the trunk and just run the car hard....it's hard to say. I will have a lot more cam and cylinder head working for me...

Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2016 :  07:48:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
In the early days of bracket racing, when stock classes still dominated race day, very fast cars had trouble maintaining consistency because they braked early so they wouldn't break out of their dial in ET. I didn't like that form of racing, but that's what they did. It wasn't a safety issue.

To avoid trouble with the techs....

Placing a limiting stop to the carburetor may accomplish the "braking" so that you can run consistently...a restrictor plate would do the same thing. Limit the air intake and your engine will not reach its power potential. It will be a trial and error process to get it dialed in so you don't run a blistering 15.00 ET. Do you still have the stock air cleaner set up. That might be enough air restriction to keep it over 11.50.

Another possible way would be to add weight (ballast) to the car; however, NHRA rules require the weight to be mounted and secured, not loose so it can't move around. If your engine is really making big power, adding 100+ pounds of barbell weights may not be adequate to make a difference.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 19 Feb 2016 10:04:02 AM
Go to Top of Page

Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7221 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2016 :  08:00:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Now that we have faster and faster OEM cars I'm wondering if this rule is going to change? I can't see people with new ZO6 Vettes (for instance) being told they have to squeeze an ugly roll bar into their brand new car. Imagine taking that car to the dealer for warranty, tech bulletin, recall etc. work with a roll bar installed! "Ain't gonna work". The rule is antiquated and needs updating.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
Go to Top of Page

Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4797 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2016 :  09:06:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good point Phil. I'm wondering when the roll bar requirement was first implemented based on ET.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
Go to Top of Page

GtoGuy32
Cochise

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2016 :  5:30:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, I plan to keep a "small" carb on the engine and hope that keeps it within the 11.5 range. I guess for every 100 lbs, it's a tenth, so maybe 1-300 lbs would get me there... I def don't have much of stock on the car anymore...

Good point about new stock cars running deep into the 11s. The roll bar requirement was and maybe still is for some tracks 11.99. They lifted it years ago for the reason you mention Phil.

At the end of the day, it's all for safety. Rolling an 11 second car is deadly without a cage....I know the cage is my friend :) I just don't want to hack my street car up.

I guess this is a good problem to have. Nothing proved out yet, but I would be surprised if my new setup didn't shave a 1/2 second off...
Go to Top of Page

RayK
Cochise

USA
925 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2016 :  01:48:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First off, the "old rule of thumb" is for every 100 lbs. you gain or lose a tenth. I found this to be fairly accurate. My advice is to stick a 100 lb. tool box in the trunk and keep it cheap. Secondly, I talked in depth to Pete Woodruff who is an NHRA tech inspector who's words were basic and to the point. Every single rule that NHRA has made has blood behind it. Simply put, the roll bar rule is in place because someone got seriously hurt or killed because they didn't have protection. To me, if you run a car at 11.49 or quicker and get booted, don't complain. Just remember that somebody somewhere paid the ultimate price.

1969 Firebird 461, #62 iron heads, Comp roller, Performer RPM, Q-Jet Turbo 400 w/ Continental converter. GM 8.5" 10 bolt with 3:73 gears.11.50's@ 119+ MPH
Go to Top of Page

GtoGuy32
Cochise

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2016 :  6:53:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RayK

First off, the "old rule of thumb" is for every 100 lbs. you gain or lose a tenth. I found this to be fairly accurate. My advice is to stick a 100 lb. tool box in the trunk and keep it cheap. Secondly, I talked in depth to Pete Woodruff who is an NHRA tech inspector who's words were basic and to the point. Every single rule that NHRA has made has blood behind it. Simply put, the roll bar rule is in place because someone got seriously hurt or killed because they didn't have protection. To me, if you run a car at 11.49 or quicker and get booted, don't complain. Just remember that somebody somewhere paid the ultimate price.



Ray, your words are resonating with me. I totally agree and it puts a little fear in me to think how a car can go from being so unsafe, to so safe because of a 0.01 second difference in performance.
Go to Top of Page

GtoGuy32
Cochise

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2016 :  01:01:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has anyone ever tried running a restrictor plate like these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wcd-wcd8850/overview/

http://www.restrictorplate.com

I think something like this might be the best way to dial my car in....

turns out one of the tracks I am racing at this summer requires a roll bar under 12 seconds....
Go to Top of Page

Steve C.
Crazy Horse

1677 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2016 :  05:52:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Could it be as easy as a throttle stop ?
Go to Top of Page

Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7221 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2016 :  12:57:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But why 11.50? Why not 12.0? 11.7? 11.0 or whatever? Cars are much faster these days, including production cars and some of those production cars are faster than the roll bar threshold. In addition, those cars are incredibly safer than cars in the past. It would seem the threshold is arbitrary and thus, could be adapted to the times and the capability of todays vehicles.

Who the hell wants to put a roll bar in their brand new Corvette, Hellcat etc.? So much for encouraging drivers not to race on the street.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
Go to Top of Page

RayK
Cochise

USA
925 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2016 :  9:06:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Phil, common sense is still a preferred option

1969 Firebird 461, #62 iron heads, Comp roller, Performer RPM, Q-Jet Turbo 400 w/ Continental converter. GM 8.5" 10 bolt with 3:73 gears.11.50's@ 119+ MPH
Go to Top of Page

Steve C.
Crazy Horse

1677 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2016 :  10:19:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about a 1/8 mile track ?

This taken from a tracks web site. I have no clue if it's NHRA "official" though.

Roll Bars
Unless otherwise required by your class:
Roll Bars required on convertibles running quicker than 7.00 - 8.59. Roll Bars required on all cars (including
T-tops) running quicker than 7.00 - 7.49.

Convert 1/8 mile to 1/4 mile:
http://www.wallaceracing.com/8th-quarter.php

Edited by - Steve C. on 17 Mar 2016 10:20:10 PM
Go to Top of Page

Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7221 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2016 :  11:40:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's why I haven't been to the track in a long time. Hassles x hassles + hassles.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
Go to Top of Page

ta man
Tribal Scout

Canada
21 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2016 :  11:02:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My 1 local track is pretty good on street nights..easy tech..I ran 11.23,11.21,11.21,11.20 last time no questions...but I really need a rollbar!

1980 Trans Am
Go to Top of Page

Armadillo
Sitting Bull

USA
223 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2017 :  12:14:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know this is an old thread and really haven't been on this site for a while. I just put an 8 point cage in the car in 15. Reason was I was going quicker and quicker on the same motor. Started running 1/8s and found there are 2 sets of rules. NHRA and IHRA. NHRA is 11.50 and 7.35. IHRA is 11.50 and 7.50. I was running 7.11 post cage. (logically sound because I dropped 60ft a tenth with the cage) I was asked to leave an IHRA (favorite track BTW) track because I was running 7.36 on hot days no problem. So I start short shifting, Added 200 lbs of sand etc and still no joy. That was why I caged it.

Will I ever be done?
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Pontiac Street Performance © 2006-2017 Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.17 seconds. This Site Sponsored By:
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05