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gixxer711
Two Feathers

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2015 :  9:33:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What is the advantage of the "Teflon" gasket listed in the link below?

http://tinindianperformance.com/Pontiac%20Water%20Pump%20Gasket.htm

Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7240 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2015 :  10:00:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would guess that it is reusable.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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gixxer711
Two Feathers

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  12:37:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That would mean not using silicone which would surprise me.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7240 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  07:18:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not really since silicone sealer wasn't around when those engines were originally designed.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5380 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  08:51:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I try to never use RTV except on thick cork gaskets like valve cover or trans pans on old models. It'd be better to go dry on thin paper gaskets, or even better a very thin gasket spray like the red spray tack or even the copper head gasket stuff. RTV is too thick for my liking/that gasket type and can introduce issues.
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gixxer711
Two Feathers

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2015 :  10:42:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Every thread I have read on installing a water pump, it is mentioned to put silicone on both sides of each gasket. Are you not supposed to run sealer on the water pump gaskets? My car runs warmer than I like, so I am ordering a flowkooler pump, stainless divider plate and sleeves and do the plate mod for clearance as I am willing to bet it was not done on this motor when it was rebuilt.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5380 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2015 :  2:04:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's ok if VERY thin, but a lot of backyard mechanics think more is better, and it actually prevents sealing. I was always taught it was the wrong sealer to use on thin machined surface to machined surface gaskets.

Per: http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/Sealit.html

The water pump should be clean and dry. No sealer is necessary between the pump and the plate or the plate and the timing cover. The mounting face on the cover can be flattened out easily on a large belt sander. Only in an emergency, should you use a badly pitted cover and "fill it in" with RTV. JB Weld or other epoxy, or a good welder, can repair a damaged cover. The bolts are tightened to 18 lb-ft. in a "star" pattern.
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gixxer711
Two Feathers

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2015 :  8:52:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I emailed tin Indian. They said it is reusable and they use silicone on them. Dunno

They say they use permatex ultra black.

Edited by - gixxer711 on 03 Dec 2015 11:32:28 PM
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gixxer711
Two Feathers

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2016 :  12:40:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I am finally getting a chance to change the pump. The pump came with two paper gaskets. So is the consensus to not use any silicone and just install these gaskets dry? I really don't want to have to do this twice.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7240 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2016 :  09:24:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use the Ultra blue, thin coat with my finger on both sides of the gaskets so everything is sealed including the divider plate. Never had a leak this way in 35 years.

It also makes them easier to remove down the road as they usually peel off vs. scraping them with a razor blade and damaging the soft aluminum. I never understood the insistence of some who want them installed dry. That may have worked when the cars were brand new on the assembly line but why risk leaks now when we have such good sealers readily available?

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3439 Posts

Posted - 28 May 2016 :  10:57:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like what ever gasket comes in the box with a very small amount of Permatex ultra black.
Adding silicone to a teflon gasket seems a little dicey. Thats unpredictable and potentially dangerous.

The key to a lasting seal is to re-torque after 1 or 2 heat cycles.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.

Edited by - Blued and Painted on 28 May 2016 11:07:42 PM
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DanM
Sitting Bull

88 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  4:23:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While replacing my water pump recently I read the instructions, all of them. There was something very informative on the black permatek container.

tighten hand-tight and let dry one hour.
then torque to specs and let dry 24 hours.

I used to just put it on, tighten, and go. And it would leak for years. Then I learned about letting it dry before filling and driving and it never leaked again. Now I learned about tightening by hand first.

My theory is that by tightening by hand it allows the sealant to flatten to a thin coating but not be squeezed completely out. then after waiting an hour it becomes durable enough not to flow anymore when tightened to full torque thus insuring a thin uniform coating.

That approach makes sense to me.

Did I mention that I'm annoyed that my Flow Kooler died after just a year or two? Here's my theory why.

1) sloppy quality control
2) I had overheating problems, so I stopped adding antifreeze and went to almost pure water to take advantage of the superior heat capacity of water and its much lower viscosity. This helped. But in doing this I eliminated the lubricating qualities of the antifreeze and the shaft-bearing of the water pump failed. This summer I will make sure that I still have enough anti-freeze for the coolant to be slippery.

Opinions?
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3439 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  2:09:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have no issues with permatex or directions.

With cork or paper gaskets, a re-torque after one or two heat cycles is needed.
There being two thick gaskets doubles the amount of heat soak seating.
I would not be shocked to see a 1/4 turn on a light re-torque with a box end wrench when both gaskets are replaced.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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