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 Bill Boyle's 79 TA Restoration Project--Part 2
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  09:10:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You have another layer of primer or sealer going over this correct? You may be working too hard. If you miss something you can catch it on the next layer. Are you using guidecoat? As perfect as you're going for, it would be a good tool for you, you'd see imperfections instantly.

Another thing is that you can't lay clear as smooth as you're sanding even at 400 or 600. There's always some peel. You might want to save some of your energy for the clear cut and buff, which i feel makes a larger difference in a show job. The paint on my 66 truck was very good, but the cut and buff made it amazing. We've beat out a lot of high dollar jobs with it at large shows.

It takes a normal classic car paint job from wow to jaw dropping. Fortunately, the more work you do at this stage, the straighter the car will be so the less blocking on the clear and the more you can do with a DA.

I see a lot of guys posting on FB groups on how they've made their homemade paint booths, what guns they're using, etc. I think you might want to get everything ready, build the makeshift booth, paint and be done before the zoning officer can show up. No one is going to put as much love into the paint as you have the body, for any money.

Or, can you rent room somewhere industrial near there and put up one of the inflatable paint booths? They get good reviews.

On these projects i generally do one piece "all the way" in each step so that i know the process i'm using works, or where a stumbling block might be (i needed a coarser buffing pad on the hood below, so i'm glad i buffed only the hood after sanding the car or else i would have had to redo a lot of work. If i had a restoration shop it would be called "3rd times a charm" because apparently i have to make 2 mistakes before i get it right the third time.)

So maybe pick a fender and do whatever steps you want to do right up to paint, and see if there's anything you'd rather do a little differently or that didn't matter before you apply to the whole car?

Here is the 56 sanded to 5k awaiting buffing (car isn't near as straight as what you're doing):



here is the hood done with 3 steps buffing done and assembled:




Here is the truck we did a few years ago, it was my first time doing anything paint, body, buffing, etc. You can see the time spent on the clear stage is worth it IMHO.


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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  11:34:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The 56 is coming along nicely.

You must think I'm a nut for punishment with all the prep I'm putting into the body of the TA. Maybe so.

This is my last time to do this car and I want to get it as good as possible. If I had dropped the car off at some fancy paint and body shop and wrote them a check for $12-15,000 or more they would not have put the TLC I've put into the body of this car.

After carefully considering shooting base coat and clear on the car in my garage, my wife and I concluded the extra work to clear it out and modify the garage to build a temporary booth was impractical.

Consequently I visited a nearby shop that uses Axalta coatings and told them about my restoration project. The shop owner agreed they would do the base coat and clear for me. The car will be delivered to them ready to mask and shoot. I'll provide the necessary paint supplies etc for them to do the job.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  2:34:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mike--whose paint product is on the '56? It appears to be non-metallic, correct? Is this a color scheme from 1956 or your color scheme?

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  4:07:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks! I don't think you're a nut, perhaps overly particular? It really does pay off though, it's worth it. I just find myself burning through motivation in these projects, i don't want to see the TA go that way!

You're right about the body shop comment, no one will put in the effort into the details that you will on your own.

That color scheme is the factory color for the car: laurel green (which is a metallic but dark so hard to see, plus that is just sanded and not buffed yet so it's dull) and crocus yellow, in the speedline two tone scheme. IIRC, crocus yellow is the same color as mayfair maize would be in the late 60's pontiacs.

I used all axlta on this car: Centari for the yellow, which is a quality acrylic enamel and nason ful cryl ii for the green, because they had no formula for laurel green in the centari. You don't have to clear them, but i have 3 - 4 coats of nason's 498-00 multi panel clear. I have also used their spot clear (496) on the truck (green door photos) with good success for cheaper clears. That way, it gives more UV protection to the AE that already resists sun and weather, and when you wetsand and buff, you're doing it on the clear. Makes a tough, cheaper finish that shines well.

I learned on AE so i've stuck with it for my projects, i've only done 1-2 small BC/CC projects, and they went well (i think chromabase premier? with tamco clear and one with nason clear.) I'm done with AE except for engines and compartments mainly because when you make a mistake you have to wait overnight to sand and fix, then do a whole section again. It also gets everywhere. However, this is my daily driver. I drove it all winter, and i'm supposed to again but i know i'll chicken out after all this work and money. It was supposed to be a quick body repair in 2-3 spots, shoot everything outside cheap, no trunk, no jambs, etc. Scuff, remove chips, and shoot and drive. AE will stick to anything, over anything, cover well, and fill pretty rough 320 scratches. I have primed repair spots under that paint, but i didn't do filler primer, i didn't seal, and i didn't block the car straight. I wanted a quick, fast paint job and back on the road, but still durable, and not wanting to worry about reacting with the paint below it.

Doing it again, i'd likely block the straight spots of the car down, 2k primer, block again, sealer, and BC/CC. Mainly because of the repair issues above. However, am on the home stretch now. I have to more steps of buffing and then i'm headed down by you for the weekend so i won't get to assembly. I have family in Cape Coral, going to visit, and taking the kid to i think universal studios. So, the car will be waiting for me when i get back. It will be a tease knowing i have new chrome and parts and have to wait to put them on.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  4:09:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I should note the green on the truck doors above is light green centari/clear also, and it's non-metallic. The laurel green was the first metallic i've laid and i have to say i'm pleased. no stripes, no blotching, no cover issues. All of which i worried about with the nason.

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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  5:52:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, for a "quickie" paint job, the paint really looks good. The '56 should attract attention wherever you drive it.

It's been since the 60s so the name may have changed but I shot two cars with Dupont enamel (may have been Centari), one was a 1965 Corvair (race car, set up for SCCA racing) and the other was a 64 Chevelle convertible. The Corvair came out pretty good it was two-tone, the Chevelle, in brown, was a disappointment. The owner got the paint and I used his dinky compressor to try and spray it using my old Binks siphon gun. Trying to do it in his garage was a big mistake. All the other cars I painted after these were acrylic lacquer jobs: 57 Chevy 2 door coupe, 79 Volvo LE, the TA in '93 with bc/cc. The 57 received a red Cadillac metallic, the Volvo silver metallic and the TA Nocturne Blue also a metallic. Between enamel and acrylic I preferred the acrylic--more forgiving than the enamel especially when there was no booth.

All of these cars were wet sanded by me. All of them received primer filler, but only the TA in 93 got the sealer before the base coat was applied. I was getting more meticulous.

++++++
The weatherman predicts monsoon rains for the next few days. Looks like things will be stalled again for me on body work. I'll need to focus on something else to do on the car.


Mike, are you installing AC in the '56?

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  8:10:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Each project does get better than the last, that's for sure. The little bit of basecoat i've worked with sprayed, covered, and laid well. no runs, no issues. And if there's a bug, well wait 20 min and then remove and scuff that spot and rebase. When you're clearing, it's super easy to see where you're at pass by pass because you're covering a matte material with clear. The way i've been doing it, the single stage is shiny, it's yellow, you can't see crap, and you're painting shiny over shiny, it can be easy to get lost.

Once i started writing down my gun settings (air fan turns out, fluid turns out, tip, pressure inlet) i've gotten a LOT more consistent. I've sprayed some pieces that didn't need sanded or buffed, just great. Then i'd spray something terrible. Dialing it in through trial and error and advice has helped a lot.

The HVLP guns have been great with the enamel. I'm shooting at 25 psi and like 3 turns out on fluid and it's as good or better off the gun as a new car. I consider new car orange peel to be like a 7/10. I'd say this car will end up at an 8/10 body work and 9/10 paint.

With the effort you're putting in, i don't see how you can't end up 9/10 or 10/10 on both body and paint. Have them put a few extra coats of clear on so you can wetsand and buff to your hearts content!
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2017 :  1:44:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: morning of 22 August 2017

Last evening was pleasant so I mixed some epoxy primer and hit a few places where my sanding broke through to expose metal--used the touch-up spray gun.

This morning, knowing that it was going to rain heavily at some point, I proceeded with reckless abandon and shot all those areas with primer filler...beating the downpour by a good 30 minutes. Working around the weather seems to be the norm right now.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 23 Aug 2017 1:45:17 PM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2017 :  2:30:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: Saturday 26 August 2017

South Florida continues to get rain, not from hurricane Harvey but from other weather systems coming from the SE Caribbean. Heavy downpours are common. That's what's happening and it's leaving me cooped up in the house or the garage. Ugh.

This morning the hood was wet sanded with 400 as was the roof. While doing the roof I found one more small high spot near the roof and sail panel seam on the passenger side of the car. Out came the body hammer and the high spot was eliminated. Some filler was added and will be sanded in a few minutes. One other area on the passenger door needs to be treated as well. It's a barely visible ding discovered low on the door and is about the size of a nickel. That's next on my to do list.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2017 :  6:26:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nothing but rain over on this side of the state. Half of cape coral is under water. I hope you're having better luck!
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2017 :  4:03:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The (now) tropical depression Harvey is virtually stalled over the SE coast of Texas. The amount of rainfall is extraordinary, simply incredible. Living on and off in SE Florida since late 64, I've seen it rain and rain, flooding streets and when the rain stops, the streets quickly get back to normal. With more and more people moving to SE Florida over the past decades, storm water isn't receding as quickly. With lots of concrete and black top, instead of normal Florida terrain once the norm, rain water sits longer.

It's hard to imagine, but I have photos of our neighborhood when we had 14-16 inches of rain in one 24 hour period. Our home remained safely away from the flooded streets. Concrete pools under construction didn't fair too well. Several that I know of, popped from the hydrostatic pressure and increase to the already low water table. Dig down about 5' and you find water. The pools popped because that water rose enough to pop heavy concrete shells that were filled with water. That was amazing to see. That was with 15 inches of rain. I can't imagine and certainly don't want to experience 20" or 30" of rain here.

Very tough times ahead for the good people of Texas. I wish them well each and every one of them.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 28 Aug 2017 4:52:41 PM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2017 :  5:55:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 29 August 2017

I'm happy to report that all metal body parts have been re-coated with primer following all the block sanding. This was completed this morning. See photos. One gallon was enough. (I thought that I'd have to spring for another expensive gallon to get it all done.)

Next up--sealer. Body needs to be light sanded first. Once the sealer is on, the fenders will be aligned and the hood fitted and that will be a challenge to do by myself.










"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 29 Aug 2017 8:18:50 PM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2017 :  2:39:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: Friday 1 Sep 2017

Visited the paint supply house this morning and purchased the sealer, activator and reducer. Brought the trunk lid with me and they used their gun to assess the original paint on the inside of the lid. Numerous paint chips were brought out and after careful deliberation and assessment, I picked the closest color to #29 Nocturne Blue. Base will be specially formulated for me. The color should look good with the gold eagle on the hood.

Lots more to do before paint though. Much to do....

Everyone have a safe Labor Day weekend.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2017 :  11:43:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 2 Sep 2017--Several days of inclement stormy weather ahead.

After applying a final coat of primer to the sheet metal a few days ago, this morning looked like an opportune time to wet sand the body. So 400 wet was used. The roof is all that is left to do and that will be wet sanded when I can re-position the hood, which is perched on the roof, to another location in the garage.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2017 :  4:21:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Glad to see you're still keeping at it! What's your next step after 400 wet sanding this coat of primer, sealer? Or is the sealer you're using wet on wet and the paint shop will do it when they do BC/CC?
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2017 :  08:30:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Glad to see you're still keeping at it! What's your next step after 400 wet sanding this coat of primer, sealer? Or is the sealer you're using wet on wet and the paint shop will do it when they do BC/CC?


Mike--Good question. "Nothing is written in stone" yet.

There are several things that I want to do before bc/cc.

Install new SS gas tank.

Dealing with the dash board

Installation of AC--Vintage Air or comparable product.

I don't want to paint the car and then risk damaging the finish by me or third party working on other areas of the car.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2017 :  09:58:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Impressive progress to say the least, Bill!

Love that Nocturne Blue. Too bad so many get Bastardized.....I mean "Banditized" with a black respray.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2017 :  3:11:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Phil--when I ordered my TA back in November 1978, I could have easily gone for the Bandit version with T-tops. Thought about the TA/TA but didn't want a silver car. I tried metallic silver when we purchased my wife's Volvo in June of 1979 and that paint turned out to be crap. I wound up re-shooting the silver in 1981 on it--the original paint did not hold up. I had reservations about the metallic silvers back then--they are far better today--lots of cars are silver. Black was too common in South Florida on TAs at that time and I wanted something different that would go with camel interior. I also had to have the Pontiac TA 6.6 engine and 4 speed. I ordered the TA the way I wanted it--changing to another color (not black) at this late date just didn't make sense to me--although I did think about it for a few microseconds.

I'm hoping when its all is done, the car should be worth between $30-35 thousand. I'm not going to sell it, but pass it on some day to one of my sons, probably Brian, who've you met at the strip in VA. He's helped me now and then on the car since he's 9 years old. He's 32 now--time flies.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  06:54:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Progress on the TA has abruptly stopped to prepare for hurricane Irma as heads to the Florida peninsular.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  11:33:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I remember the silvers too as being problematic and that continued well into the 80's. Your original decision to opt for the Nocturne Blue was a good decision and one that has stood the test of time.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  11:36:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, I went back through page 2 of this thread for info. regarding the service you used to restore the steering wheel but I don't see it. I now have 3 that need restoration and rather than reinventing the wheel (no pun intended but actually quite appropriate) would you mind sharing the shop you chose and any related advice?

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2017 :  4:09:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Phil--I sent you an email.

Update: Hurricane Irma is heading our way and it doesn't look like we will escape without some amount of damage to our home and vehicles. It's a very helpless feeling. To make things worse, our generator is leaking gas around the fuel bowl and there's no time nor are there parts readily available for this Suburu powered engine to fix it. Our neighborhood is sure to lose power with the first 50 mph gust. When Wilma came through in 2005 we had no electric for 14 days...this time it may be a lot worse.

We are going into frontier survival mode now and aim to post again when things improve.

Bill



"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2017 :  5:02:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, haven't received email yet but will check junk box just in case.
I left you a voicemail on your cell too.

Btw, I had the same Subaru carb issue and fixed it with some RTV. Hasn't leaked in 2 years.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2017 :  11:54:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: Monday 18 August 2017

Hurricane Irma targeted Florida and that delayed all work on the TA for obvious reasons. Clean-up around our home continues and electrical service was restored after 6 days of it going dark.

Today, I picked up my specially ordered gallon of color (Nocturne Blue) and related components. So, in the coming days, I have to de-clutter my garage in order for me to resume working on the car. Our garage gathered lots of "stuff" to keep the "stuff" away from blowing into the next county.

The storm was a minor set back and barely worth mentioning in light of the devastation that some Floridians and peoples living in the caribbean have to deal with. Pictures show homes blown apart and cars, trucks and boats broken, mangled, and in pieces. This storm was just terrible. I'm thankful that we escaped with so little damage. We dodged the bullet--this time.

Another hurricane is heading to the same islands Irma beat up. It will grow and turn NW according to weather people and could effect the Carolinas. Keep and eye on that one. Be prepared for the worst and hope and pray it will go out to sea and not effect lives.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2017 :  1:10:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
19 September 2017--

Today I sat down and ran some numbers to see what the tab was for the Axalta paint products.

1. Epoxy primer direct to metal, 2. primer filler, 3. sealer, 4. base coat, 5. clear coat (includes all additives, reducers and activators for each item) (does not include plastic mixing cups, SEM products for urethane bumpers, strainers, masking tape, masking paper, various grits of sand paper, sanding blocks etc.) ...... Total... $2,140. 66


*******
The products chosen by me were top of the line. Local shops often settle for products that are a lesser grade but adequate to do the job for the customer. Sometimes they will cut corners....

For Example: The Technical Data Sheet (TDS), states " Chromabase base coat should be activated with 14305S Activator for optimum performance and for lifetime guaranty. I was informed that many body shops using Axalta skip the additive altogether. I don't know why but it may be due to the high cost for a quart of the activator. My cost was: $102.78. That's what I paid, and I'll be using the activator as specified in the TDS.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  1:30:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Question: Re: Underside of hood.

Stock is a semi-gloss, perhaps a satin, black. Rather than using spray cans, I'm looking for suggestions on brand of paint that can be sprayed through my HVLP gun.

+++++

Has anyone applied Eastwood's semi-gloss, RTD (ready to shoot)?


http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-underhood-black-paint.html

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 20 Sep 2017 1:38:42 PM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  3:22:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I use single stage, so that may not be what you want. You can play with BC/CC using a matte clear, but it's easy to tiger stripe the matte clear than flatter paint on a large surface like a hood, IMHO.

Anyways, for my 66 truck (below) trying to look more factory correct, i used centari 99a black, with a flattener in it (i'm told it's basically talc powder.) It's a tough single stage, spray it around 25 PSI with a 1.4 tip and you'll be in the neighborhood of the right settings.

The "correct" gloss is around 60% gloss black IIRC. For a matte black, i see a lot of guys doing whole cars in john deere blitz black and claiming it's durable, sprays and lays easy.

Of course, if you're going over the top and not 100% correct, i love a glossy painted engine bay, not chrome but done as nice with paint under the hood as the rest of the car. In that vein, i did more on the 56 than what the factory did.

I did the underside of my hood in the same paint as the rest of the car, with the braces in centari 99a black, no flatten agents. In that case, get black axalta BC and the same clear you're using on the other side of the hood.






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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2017 :  2:55:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 21 September 2017

Unresolved on painting the under side of the hood.

This morning I concluded that "Bill's 1979 TA project" will not be completed in 2017 as I had hoped. My project seems to grow and grow.

Originally, my plan was to save the original paint in the door jambs--leave them as is. The original paint is pristine. However, some overspray from epoxy primer, sprayed long ago now isn't coming off with 1000 grit W/D paper as I thought it would, and in one spot, my lighting was so poor and shadowy that my vigorous sanding with 1000 grit wet sand paper burned through the original paint.

My plan to save the car's upper window seals (non T-top car), has changed as the rubber is not crisp looking and would detract from the car's future paint job. So, the original rubber seals will be removed and new ones installed. Removing the rubber seals is not something I've done before on a Firebird so I'll have to move cautiously not knowing what will happen in the process.

Once the upper rubber seals are removed, I'll sand the door jambs, mask off the interior and shoot the jambs with a light coat of sealer (not primer) followed by base coat and clear.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2017 :  4:13:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep, and it's amazing how some things like trim, rubber gaskets etc. look in surprisingly good shape until a nice, fresh coat of paint starts going on things. Then it stands out like a bruised thumb.

Good decision to update the gaskets. Be careful what you get. Lots of crap out there. This (Metro) place has been highly recommended on a few restoration sites and I plan to try next: (Link right to your section for your convenience.)

https://www.metrommp.com/?f=product_list_for_vehicle&search_year=1979&search_make=PONTIAC&search_model=FIREBIRD&search_submodel=

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2017 :  10:02:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I wasn't going to do my jambs and inside of doors either...or the trunk, or the underside of the hood. It grows quickly!
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2017 :  1:53:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Question: What if I paint the underside of the hood the same color as the body of the car? That would be the nocturne blue with clear. Would that look funky, out of place, totally wrong for a Pontiac Firebird? Opinions?

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2017 :  2:54:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I generally think it looks good on older cars, but your car is bridging the gap from classic to more modern 80's style vehicles. Does the car have an underhood fiber mat? if so, then it may not matter as most will be covered anyways.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2017 :  2:56:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here, i feel body colored inner fenders and underhood look sharp:

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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2017 :  4:42:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There no insulation on the TA's hood.

The above photo with body colored inner fenders and underside of the hood looks pretty darn good. My inner fenders will remain black, but the underside of the hood might look pretty nice in body color. Hmmm.




"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2017 :  11:17:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
oh you think they'll remain black. It's possible to sneak them out on some cars without removing the fenders. I'll give it about three days before you're yanking those inner fenders ;) And if you're doing the jambs, might as well take the fenders off.
And if you shoot the hood and the fenders and door jambs yourself, might as well do the doors and trunk lid. Well, only the shell is left, that'd be quick.

And then you're done and it never left the garage.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2017 :  07:57:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Are you trying to make MORE work for me Mike? This project is growing like a body builder on steroids.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2017 :  10:13:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm just pointing out how those jambs and that underhood are going to haunt you until you decide to do them up 100%. I know you're drinking your coffee thinking "well, it will just add another day to the project."

I've been there. I wasn't going to jamb/do doors on the 56. I wasn't going to do the trunk or underhood. I for SURE wasn't going to do the effort of repainting the top half of the dash because it had some fisheyes and the color was close enough.
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Christ
Howling Wind

USA
1808 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2017 :  5:42:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I see all my post and even my car was deleted. I been gone to long lol
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2017 :  06:20:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Christ--you're still registered, none of your posts were deleted, but photos posted through a 3rd party source were removed by the 3rd part source when they changed their policy; it wasn't the PSP forum.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2017 :  10:44:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 26 September 2017

All the wheel well spoilers, air dam, rear spoiler, fender extractors and rear bumper cover are ready for sealer. Each part was re-examined for smoothness and touched up with 400 W/D sandpaper, if it needed it.

These parts will be sprayed off the car, with sealer and base coat. The fenders will get one coat of sealer and then the "fender jambs" (I'll call them that) will get base coat. The edge of the fender where the hinges are located by the 'A" pillar will also be sprayed with base coat. While this area is mostly hidden from sight, it can be seen during close inspection and needs to get painted with color. There is no access to get to this area when the fender is mounted on the car.

The rear bumper was also installed and the urethane bumper cover test fitted.

Rain is forecasted for this entire week so painting is on hold. I'll move on to other things.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 26 Sep 2017 6:26:19 PM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2017 :  7:10:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Evening Update: 26 September 2017

This afternoon, the original gas take was removed from the car. The job was not complicated, however, it was annoying having to ascertain which strap bolts were millimeter. As mentioned before, my 79 TA was assembled using both SAE and metric fasteners. Crazy huh? To work on it I have to have both types of wrenches and sockets with me.

The Firebird gas tank is held in place with two straps. On my TA the larger bolts near the bumper are SAE and the smaller ones on the axle side are metric.

The car has two emission control lines that run along the passenger side of the car. The 3/8" gas line is routed along the driver's side of the car. All steel lines from the tank connect with rubber hose and clamps to their corresponding steel lines aforementioned.

Once the tank was dislodged from it's secured position, I spotted the car's build sheet that was stuck under one of the straps and saw that some of it was stuck to the underside of the trunk. It's in pieces and is useless.

Another build sheet was discovered long ago when the rear seats were removed. That one was in a little better shape but it too was useless. I suppose I'll need to get with PHS and get a good copy of the build sheet one of these days.

The under side of the trunk floor where the tank resides is in great shape--no rust--and all it required was a little soap and water to clean it up.

Tomorrow, it's game on with the new tank.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2017 :  8:05:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Photos of the new stainless steel tank (just out of the box).





More photos coming....

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2017 :  8:30:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: Thursday 28 September 2017

This morning, I began assembling the tank by installing the sending unit and putting the gasket and lid lock in place. What I noted was that the gas line from the sending unit interfered with one of the emissions lines. This wouldn't do. I hated like hell to do it...I dislodged that line and moved it more toward the passenger side of the tank. The line that was dislodged from its solder also broke the solder where it enters the tank. No fear, I'd seal it all up with 24 hour JB Weld epoxy.

The location on the tank was scuffed as was the solder at the line's entry point into the tank. After curing for 24+ hours it's set. All other lines were added to the tank, slightly modified from the original emission line configuration, but so what, the TA hasn't been a 70s smogger for quite some time.

While under the rear of the car the past couple of days, aside from cleaning, and there's a bit more to do, I kept looking at the rusty original .750" WS-6 rear sway bar. Yep you know what I'm thinking.

But first, I wanted to be able to use the new SS straps that secure the tank to the car. The old straps needed to come off, except with the transverse cross flow muffler in place, I couldn't get them to release where they hook in. Now what?

The only way I could remove these two straps was to dismantle a good portion of my PYPES exhaust system. Yikes, something I didn't want to do at all. It was a bear getting it all to fit. Working on my back all day, sliding in and out on the creeper. My back is ailing--really ailing, however, being the old trooper I am, I didn't stop until, 1) the exhaust was removed, 2) the old straps were removed, and 3) the rusty WS-6 rear sway bar was removed. Fortunately for me, there wasn't much rust on the critical bolts involved, so with a little solvent to loose some of the grime, the nuts holding everything together came off, as did the sway bar.

Tomorrow is another day, and what I do depends on how my lower back is doing.


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 29 Sep 2017 08:20:42 AM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2017 :  3:26:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: Friday 29 September 2017

I'm going to begin here: " I kept looking at the rusty original .750" WS-6 rear sway bar."

The rubber is good on it, so refinishing the links and sway bar was the next task. Despite my lower back being sore from yesterday's work, all surface rust was removed from the two links and sway bar. Removing the rust required sanding with 180 grit (long sheet used for block sanding) sand paper followed but wire wheels. Shop towels with rubbing alcohol removed all the rust residue. It was ready for paint.

It rained a few times this morning and stopped, so my work stand was set up outdoors so the parts could be painted. As soon as that happened it began to rain so everything was returned to the garage to do another day.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2017 :  4:47:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bill, Was going through my email and just saw your PM, it was in the spam folder, responded, sorry i didn't see those!
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2017 :  3:01:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 30 September 2017

The rear sway bar was painted yesterday with Dupli-color's black semi-gloss acrylic enamel and will soon be re-installed. This is a pretty good rattle can paint. It has a nice sheen to it and for enamel, it dries quickly.


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2017 :  3:51:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: Wednesday 3 October 2017

Still working under the rear of the car. The exhaust remains apart. the new tank is still not in place, nor is the freshly painted rear sway bar.

More cleaning is underway and I've started removing surface rust from the axle and rear end. While I've decided to hold of replacing the leaf springs and new bushings and hardware, the axle and rear end are partially hidden by the Pypes Race Pro Cross Flow Transverse Muffler (try to say that 3 times fast ) when its in place, so, with it out of the way, it is an opportune time to clean it up and get it painted.

Today's effort was cut short because of the high winds and rain that forced me to close the garage door leaving me no room to maneuver under the rear of the car. More work is planned for tomorrow morning.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2017 :  10:03:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice work Bill and Cort.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2017 :  3:41:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: Friday 6 October 2017

This morning the rear axle was clean and rust free enough so that it could be painted this afternoon. Here's what I went through the past few days:

First I used soap and water and a brush to remove surface dirt. This was followed with mineral spirits to loosen any gook and road tar so that it could be scraped off more easily. Scraping tools were used after that. Then everything was given another application of mineral spirits, this time using a hand held wire brush. More scraping...more solvent. Once it looked and felt clean without any grit on the metal, I used rubbing alcohol and paper towels to clean everything. My shop vac was used to suck up any dirt or dust I didn't catch. That left a somewhat clean rear end, but rust color was still visible on it. The axle tubes were treated to 80 and 180 grit sand paper as well.

The brake lines retainers and clips that secure it to the the axle housing were removed or opened and the brake lines move ever to slightly so they could be masked off for painting of the axle. The limited slip differential tab was also removed temporarily for painting.

The paint used was Dupli-color's acrylic enamel DA 1603 semi-gloss black. The nozzle gives a wide fan and worked very well getting paint where it needed to go. Several coats were applied. The paints dries quickly allowing coats of paint to build up in short order. Other enamels I've used take hours to dry and remain tacky for days. DA 1603 is good stuff.

As mentioned the leaf springs will be changed at a later date following the project. It is more of a maintenance thing than part of the restoration project. Besides, it will give me something else to do in the future.


"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 07 Oct 2017 09:21:54 AM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  08:15:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sometimes things just don't go right.

Briefly, new SS straps were ordered with my SS tank. The old straps needed to be removed. Not too difficult really but there was a problem for me. The exhaust system converted from dual turbo style mufflers to a transverse crossflow that would reside behind the axle, prevented the hook end of the old straps to be removed. There was not enough clearance. Got the picture?

So, the pipes and muffler were removed. Disassembly was annoying, again no lift, the car sitting on stands. It took time. Re-assembly would be longer as there is a clearance issue with the tail pipes that exit through chrome tip splitters.

When it was time to re-assemble the exhaust, I made an error in judgment. The new SS straps were a little different than the OE straps and didn't appear to need the same clearance. I tested one and found this to be the case, so I thought. However, I forgot that the straps are not of equal length nor are they located in the same location on the underside of the trunk. Another goof.

So, believing I would not need to install the hook ends first and then assemble the exhaust, I spent 4 hours re-assembling the exhaust system, to learn I screwed up. The shorter strap went in okay, the larger needed the clearance just like the OE straps. Miffed, the entire exhaust system was pulled apart again. Once the muffler was out, in went the longer strap and and both received screws to hold them firmly in place. The other end was bolted in place (temporarily).

Once that was done, the exhaust was re-assembled again. The tailpipes will need to be fine tuned I'm sure of that.

I'm passing this along because it could save one of you some time IF replacing a gas tank on a Firebird a Formula or TA (Camaro too) that is using a transverse cross flow muffler system. Had I stayed with the two turbo mufflers that sit below the back seat on an F-body this problem would not have existed for me.



"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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