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 Bill Boyle's 79 TA Restoration Project--Part 2
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2016 :  1:30:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Phil--
SEM Camel Tan vinyl, leather and plastic paint. I've use this product in the past. It holds up quite well.

++++
Also want to add that pre-fitting, that is fitting it exactly where it needs to go is critical IMO. Since this is an overlay, the cigarette tray, should work, that is glide in and out without catching on the overlayment plastic. The same applies for the glove box door.

Also want to note that there's more clearance at the driver's "A" pillar than the passenger side. That where the rub will occur unless mods are made.

BTW, I'm hurdles away from doing the interior stuff.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2016 :  3:19:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Talk about high hurdles to jump....

The fit around the passenger side AC vent and glove box wasn't to my satisfaction, so I spoke with Peter DeFazio at Fbodywarehouse and told him my issues. After explaining my concerns and told him how tight the fit was of the original dash to the car, especially tight on the passenger side, he suggested adjusting and centering the dashboard so there is about the same space on both 'A" pillars. That would fix the super tight fit and binding on the passenger side 'A" pillar and AC vent.

Clearly, this complicates things. It's an "on your back" PITA. More of my AC venting ducts will need to be removed to access all the screws and nuts; I can only hope things don't get more involved once I get to doing that.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2016 :  3:37:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, that's getting in the realm of dash removal which is a major PITA! At that point ones mind begins to think about dash restoration.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2016 :  3:45:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yeah Phil--it crossed my mind again. If Chip Foose wants to jump in with his team for nothing he's welcome...but I don't have the budget nor the idle time to send it out to Just Dashes and wait many, many months to get it back into the car. So, when the urge hits to tackle this re-location of the original dash, I'll do it. I need to find something to even out the floor pan so I don't screw up my back (again).

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2016 :  5:52:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you can get Chip interested, be prepared for an LS swap and two tone paint.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2016 :  09:09:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A couple of "honey do" projects are underway at my house and I haven't been able to spend any "real" time on the TA the past 14 days. However, my newly leather wrapped Formula steering wheel is back and is beautiful.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2016 :  12:12:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Below are photographs of the original Formula steering wheel as it appeared moments before being sent out for "restoration." These are the 2 BEFORE photos.





Below are three photos of the wheel AFTER being "restored" with a camel tan leather wrap.



Here's a close up of the wrap and stitching at 6 o'clock on the wheel.



More of the stitching--



I'm very pleased with it.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2016 :  12:34:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Me Too. Looks great.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2016 :  2:17:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looking sharp!
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Matt H
Cochise

USA
310 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2016 :  11:37:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Matt H's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Very nice Bill. Huge difference !!!

1981 TA Turbo pace car. 461 stroker.

Edited by - Matt H on 13 Feb 2016 11:42:36 PM
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2016 :  11:46:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow! Nice result!

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2016 :  08:56:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Below are three (3) photos recently taken showing the gaps between both 'A' pillars on the TA. The replacement pad mentioned in an earlier post (above) requires an even amount of space to fit over the existing dashboard pad or it won't fit like it should. A bad fit may causing squeaking and be a poor installation--that won't do. The original dash pad will require a slight adjustment toward the 'A' pillar on the driver' side. Here's what it looks like right now.






"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2016 :  11:18:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's been weeks since I posted anything about my car because progress stalled for a variety of reasons. Today, I returned to the car with one goal in mind, to remove the original trunk seal/gasket from the channel.

I'm using 3m General Purpose Adhesive Remover to loosen the adhesive.

First the rubber was grabbed and slowly pulled away from the adhesive binding it into the trunk's channel. A lot of it didn't pull away neatly. What I discovered was the factory installers used plenty of adhesive to secure the rubber in place. In fact, they were quite sloppy about applying it as the adhesive spilled over the edges on to the body. Only thing I can say is the trunk never leaked, but as far as removing the adhesive, this is a real chore even with the remover being applied repeatedly too loosen it. This may take many hours to accomplish. I fashioned a 3/8" wide scraper from a wood shim to help remove this stuff.

BTW, nothing has been done to relocate the dash at this time. That's still something on my "to do" list.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2016 :  08:16:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I spent hours yesterday applying adhesive remover, letting it sit to help dissolve the bond between the adhesive and the metal, and then scraping and rubbing with a towel. More needs to be done today. Using the wood scraper is less likely to scratch or gouge the painted surface like a metal scraper would do. This is a slow process.

It is my intent to remove the originally applied seam sealer around the trunk. Much of it has dried out and is cracking. Since new the trunk has been leak free and if I simply painted over it, the fix would only be temporary and merely cosmetic. The old needs to be removed and new seam sealer applied and eventually painted (nocturne blue).

The trunk lid (inside) still looks new and will not be repainted. It sill has the original decals and they look fresh.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2016 :  10:02:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting. The cracked seam sealer is on top of what appears to be body filler that was used by the factory to level the joints between body parts. I thought it was just seam sealer.

I've removed the seam sealer and body filler with a sharp wood chisel, the surface was treated with cleaning solvent, lightly sanded, and then new body filler applied to the joint area. This will be sanded down flush with the body when dry. Later this joint will receive seam sealer and some body paint.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2016 :  11:45:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 25 April 2016

Today, after all repairs were completed around the trunk lid, color coats and clear were applied. Down the road, this area will be hand buffed to match the shine on the rest of the car. Next: Weather stripping needs to be ordered.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2016 :  08:34:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 23 June 2016-

Progress remains stalled. The car is on the back burner so to speak. Too many other things going on. We took a 3300 mile car trip with our granddaughter stopping at several college campuses along the route. Also fighting with a vendor that failed to return our $$$ when expensive bathroom vanity was not delivered and we cancelled the order. My list of tasks continues to mount to the exclusion of the TA.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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F-Body International
Tribal Scout

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2016 :  11:02:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice steering wheel Bill! It's crazy seeing someone considering the gap on the dash pad. This will surely be a perfect ride with that attention to detail.
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2016 :  12:35:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Whats up Mr, Bill..
Hope things are going OK.


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2016 :  10:56:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah how's the project?

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

847 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2016 :  10:33:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No free time to focus on the car right now. My TA project is totally stalled. Home maintenance and upgrades being pursued.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2016 :  10:14:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seems to be the theme in many places, including here. It'll pick up again, after all this is supposed to be a hobby, or so we tell ourselves.

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2016 :  11:12:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hobby? It's an obsession for me anymore. Got a 56 chevy to be my DD, and i can't stop going overboard on every step. Like, i can do just "good enough". When i'm done i'll probably feel bad driving it because it will be too nice. Sometimes i'm exhausted just thinking about another project.

Got to go, hope to have inner fenders and firewall in paint today. :-/
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rkellerjr
Many Feathers

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2016 :  06:54:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cortcomp



Got to go, hope to have inner fenders and firewall in paint today. :-/



hahahaha

Rich
1975 TA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR86YT69yeY
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2016 :  12:24:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
the funny part is i didn't get the firewall in paint til last night, and still haven't done the inner fenders :(
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2017 :  3:27:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Today is 4 April 2017. My project has sat in the garage collecting dust while my wife and I have transformed our home into a more functional living space. I've been busy either doing the work myself or arranging subs to do work. My wife has been retired about a year and has been very active pursuing these many changes--all for the better. Now all these major undertakings have been performed and I can get back to the Trans Am. I'm glad that I've collected as many parts over the past few years and not starting from scratch, yet the long delay between working on it feels like I'm starting from scratch.

Today, while sitting looking around at the many boxes in the garage containing parts and all the places where painting parts are still hanging--they are dry now--I noticed how filthy my rear wheel wells are. So, curious to see how bad the undercoating was that is protecting the sheet metal in the wheel wells, I dragged out brushes and cleaning supplies and tackled it head on. An hour later, 99% of the crud was in a catch pan, clean enough for now. I'll pursue the other side tomorrow. Once that's done, I have to figure out where I should re-start on the car--body or interior. I have lots to do. There are lots of issues to address and solve. I have to move along on this now. Follow me as the progress continues. I'll post updates every day that work is performed.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 04 Apr 2017 3:29:29 PM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2017 :  10:10:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wednesday 5 April 2017.

This morning I began the paint removal process on the front bumper cover of the TA. I'm using Aircraft brand paint remover for plastic (urethane) parts in spray can format. The cover was washed off first then a couple of quick coats were applied to one half of the cover. It says to let the material sit for about 15 minutes but I found that is too long here. I believe the temperature and humidity may play a role in the time it sits part of it. Less time produced wrinkling of the paint that could be readily removed. To long and the material "dried" and would not come of consistently. Numerous wet coats of the remover were applied and re-applied and plastic scrapers were used too remove the old finish. Old paint was scraped off into a card board box.

Based on what I've encountered, two cans minimum will be needed to remove the old Nocturne Blue finish. Once the color coats are off uniformly, the cover will need to be sanded with wet and dry sand paper, to get a smooth finish that can be primed.

I have to admit that while performing this tedious paint removal process this morning, I did give thought of simply ordering a new after market cover. Also, I still wonder if the urethane plastic will hold it's shape once it's back on the car.. Sagging plastic won't do.. Worse case scenario is that it I wind up getting a new cover. ()

Two hours spent on this thus far---just in case anyone is wondering.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2017 :  10:56:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Glad to see you're back at it bill! I was sick and it knocked me out for about 4 days (from the garage) and that was about all i can stand, wandering around the house like a zombie. I hate to see a project un-touched! Doing even the smallest tasks will build motivation and get you back at it.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2017 :  1:04:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 6 April 2017

This morning more work was done removing old paint from the front bumper cover. What I learned from yesterday's effort is that the product works best when applied in small areas, perhaps 8" square or less, allowed to sit for a minute and wiped clean with a plastic scraper. Not only did the work this morning go faster, I was able to use less material. Why the company recommends 10-15 minutes to penetrate is nuts.

I went around the entire cover and removed more of the red substrate so only the initial primer from my last paint job in 93 is left. Sanding is next. I'm still wondering how this cover is going to finish up. I see no swelling from the paint stripper but I do worry about the age of the urethane and have hopes I didn't waste my time with it. An after market bumper is $ 450 or so. I broke the news to my better half this morning so if I decide to go that route she would be shocked. You know how that is....

I spent another 2.5 hours on the cover today. More work on the cover tomorrow.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Brian R
Crazy Horse

USA
1672 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2017 :  5:17:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great to see you back on the TA - keep the updates coming, I always enjoy them.

Good luck
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2017 :  6:16:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, have you had any feedback on the quality of the reproduction ones?

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2017 :  05:43:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Phil, I haven't fully explored the quality of the urethane front covers. If this had been brought to a shop, they would have insisted on getting a replacement because of the man hours required to remove all the old finish including substrates. However, my effort is to clean my unit up as best I can, prep it with primers etc and re-mount it on the car. If it looks good and there are no sags along the top surface, I'll stick with it. Otherwise, I may have to explore who offers the best replacement cover. At this point I don't know who manufactures them for the vendors. It could be China. I also know that some outfit makes a fiberglass cover but have never seen one in real life.

++++
Yesterday afternoon I began hand sanding the unit. Spent 1 hour on it. More will be done this morning. No power tools--it will all be by hand. I will post illustrative photos soon.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

847 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2017 :  06:45:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Below are 5 "in progress" photos involving the removal of the clear coats, base color coats and substrates off the front bumper cover.










"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2017 :  12:38:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Solid work. No power tools? You're a glutton for punishment!
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Blued and Painted
Chief PONTIAC

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2017 :  12:53:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lookin Good!


Bull Nose Formula/ 461/ Q-Jet/
TH400/ 3.08 8.5 / R44TS.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

847 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2017 :  12:26:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Palm Sunday--9 April 2017--Update

Just want to report that more sanding has been done on the front bumper cover--all by hand. The reason it's being done by hand versus trying with power is that what needs to be removed is very thin and I don't want to dig into the urethane. I'm using 80 grit, 100, 120, & 220 so far. No wet sanding--all dry. There are many groves to be cleaned up as well and that takes time. I'm being very deliberate with this bumper and it is time consuming; however, I'm outdoors, the weather is mild for South Florida, the birds are tweeting and no body is bugging me to do something else. This is great and peaceful. Once I'm satisfied with the surface, I will give the cover two coats of flexible primer. If any sanding swirls are visible it will get a filler surfacer.

"Steady as she goes," as they say.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

847 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  1:02:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
10 April 2017

Foolish me. I should know better.

Today, I set up to strip the paint from the TA's rear spoiler. It's fiberglass as most of you know except for the end caps that are urethane. A had a few sprays left of the Aircraft Paint Remover for Plastic and tried that on a tiny section of the spoiler. I ran out and here's where things went wrong, or at least it became frustrating.

I could order more and have it shipped to my house or, get this, actually try to find the same product in a local automotive store. Since we had to go to Home Depot anyway, we swung into the local Pep Boys and they had two cans of the aerosol product that I used and tried on the fiberglass. HOWEVER, neither of the two spray cans on the shelf had a cap on it or spray nozzles. I went up to the counter and addressed the problem with the 20 something woman and she checked their inventory and they had no other cans. Her response to me was, "I can order it." No thanks, I replied and that was that. And merchants wonder why Internet purchasing is cutting into their selling activity. They only had 2 screwed up cans? They had no more in stock? C'mon!

Since I'm working on fiberglass parts, Aircraft makes a product specifically for stripping paint off of fiberglass, however, it doesn't come in anything but a gallon can. So, I wound up making an Internet purchase and the fiberglass formula will be here next week. It's more than I need, but that's the situation.

This product will be applied with a brush to loosened the painting substrates off the rear spoiler and the shaker. Meanwhile, I plan to do the final prep on all of the urethane pieces and shoot them with flexible primer before the weekend. Pictures to follow when I get to that point.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

847 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2017 :  11:44:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tuesday 11 April 2017

After spending hours stripping paint and sanding the front bumper cover, today while doing clean up sanding with 320, I noticed hairline cracks on several locations on the cover. These are typically called spider web cracks. They happen despite no damage ever happening to a cover.

I'm stalled on what to do. These hairline cracks are in the plastic and if not repaired will re-surface at some point on my new paint (whenever that happens). These cracks were nearly invisible on the bumper when it was on the car and only appeared around 2006--about 13 years after the refinishing paint job on the car in '93. I couldn't even see them in the color coat while working on the cover the past few days. I thought they were gone. Wrong..

I have a two-part product that was used to make repairs to the rear bumper (see previous thread) so, I may attempt to make a repair using it again. If it doesn't work out -- I 'll have to reassess my budget.

How to make the repair, if it can be done will require finesse on my part. I'm going into uncharted waters.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2017 :  11:49:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, you really have two choices: repair or replace. I'd try to repair it, and if you ruin it or can't get it how you want, then you can replace anyways.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

847 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2017 :  12:50:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Exactly Cortcomp.

I've gotten my handy-dandy Dremel out, and surgically cut into each of the little hairline fractures. This took just 10 minutes. Then I sanded the areas a little more. Next is to mix up some 3M plastic filler (the one I used before) and skim the areas with it. Once it's cured, it will be sanded flush with the cover and it will be ready for primer. I think this should take care of the existing hairline cracks but only time will tell if new ones appear in the future.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2017 :  08:12:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 12 April 2017--(105 years ago today the Titanic sunk.)

Well, the approach taken yesterday on fixing the hairline cracks may have saved me hundreds of dollars. Only time will tell if they resurface. Since they were barely noticeable in the first place, I feel pretty confident in the repair.

If I wasn't trying to build a show car, these fractures would have been entirely overlooked.

++++
I go to 6-10 car shows in my local area each year. The number of Pontiacs that are on display may be less than 2 percent of all vehicles being shown. Some are survivors and they have a certain appeal. Others have been partially restored and look pretty darn nice. Seldom have I seen a Pontiac that is a top contender at a local show. What I'm trying to do is get my TA into the show car top contender class--a car that could compete well in an all Pontiac show and possibly win the scrutiny of Pontiac knowledgeable judges. Had I just wanted to make this a weekend driver, my work would have been less involved. Had I wanted to make this a drag car, all of my time would have been on mechanical rather than on cosmetic.

++++++
My plan has been changed on who is going to spray the color coats and coats of clear on the car. My brother was going to do the job because he had the ability to do a great job and the big booth to do it in. He has since retired from his job and moved from South Florida up north. This has left me in a quandary on finding a shop to spray the color and clear coats. As I continue to work on the TA, that issue is ever present. At some point, I'll need to begin my hunt again.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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rkellerjr
Many Feathers

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2017 :  08:52:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Love stopping in and seeing your progress Bill!

Rich
1975 TA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR86YT69yeY
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2017 :  1:27:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's raining so my work outdoors has come to a halt. In the meantime, I decided to examine a few parts, specifically the spoiler end caps, original to the TA. Since 1979, it always bothered me that the end caps (made of urethane) did not match up well with the fiberglass spoiler. Here is a photo taken before any real work was performed on the TA. It shows the bad alignment.



So, I thought does any vendor manufacture fiberglass end caps that would better align with the spoiler? I contacted Ecklers and chatted with one of their helper experts on line. Despite telling him about the year of my car, 1979...he put me on to the 1978 version of the rear spoiler package which is all fiberglass. Good to know if anyone needs to restore their earlier TA. No help with the 1979 though.

Fit on these old cars isn't close to what is produced today.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2017 :  4:33:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good progress! That spoiler alignment looks way better than when they were new.

(The Titanic sunk 105 years ago early morning on the 15th).)

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.

Edited by - Phil on 12 Apr 2017 4:34:44 PM
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2017 :  7:01:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You are right Phil on the day Titanic sunk. I got ahead of myself. She set sail on the 10th, hit the berg on the 14th and went down less than 3 hours afterwards on the 15th.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2017 :  09:24:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: 13 April 2017

My effort was wasted!! This morning putting the final touches on the front bumper cover, cleaning it with Prep-sol, thousands of hairline cracks appeared in the plastic. Flexing it created thousands more. The urethane is deteriorating badly and no amount of TLC will reverse it's condition. What a waste!

A new cover was ordered from APE and will arrive next week.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.

Edited by - Bill Boyle on 13 Apr 2017 09:44:47 AM
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cortcomp
Coyote

USA
5335 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2017 :  10:02:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit cortcomp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, you gave it the old college try. Better to find out now vs later! I wonder if the paint stripper contributed to the breakdown at all?
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Bill Boyle
Horse Feathers (Charter Member)

USA
4794 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2017 :  11:44:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bill Boyle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cortcomp--
The Aircraft product used was specifically for urethane covers so I don't believe it sped up the deterioration process.

Aside from having to dig into the wallet once again, the time spent on the old bumper cover to make it right can't be recaptured. That's gone. Yes, it is far bette to learn of a bad part before more money and time is invested in it. A properly prepared new urethane cover should be free from deterioration for many, many years. The TA will be garaged 100% now unlike in the past where it was sometimes garaged and sometimes stuck outdoors subjected to all kinds of weather conditions.

Now a new, raw urethane bumper cover will need to be prepared for refinishing. I'll need to determine "what I need to do" to prep it correctly.

BTW, I took a good look at the rear cover and it is hairline fracture free--a great thing.

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

----
400 bored +.030, forged TRW pistons, ported 62 heads, Hedman headers, 2.5 SS dual exhaust X Pypes, Comp 276AH10 cam, Scorpion 1.65 RR, 850 Q-jet, stock intake & tuned HEI; original owner.
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Phil
The Great White Buffalo

USA
7218 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2017 :  09:53:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, I though I saw a fiberglass one being made and if it's of decent quality, I would consider that option as it eliminates the drawbacks of the urethane cover and it's tendencies to wave and move all over the place depending upon that day's environment. Painting is a lot easier too I would think.(?)

Bowties are for Pee-wee Herman. "Chevy": even the name sounds cheap, but not as cheap as your Pontiac will be with an LS transplant.
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Admin
Ye Olde Webmaster

847 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2017 :  1:57:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Phil, I had a choice to make, OEM urethane or fiberglass. I wanted the urethane to keep the exterior original.

Update: 17 April 2017

Sanded the rear wheel well spoiler more and added 3m Rigid Plastic repair product to several areas previously damaged from road debris striking and gouging the urethane. After that cured the areas were sanded first with 80, then 100, 120, 220 and 320. Not satisfied a little body filler was mixed and applied to make sure there would be no visible depressions in the spoiler. It's my belief that the next step will be shooting a first coat of SEM flexible primer on them. However, I will wait to shoot them until after my new front bumper is in the same prepared state for primer.

Spraying primer through a HVLP gun doesn't take long so all the urethane parts can be done in "one sitting" so to speak. Once a first coat of primer is applied, I'll apply a guide coat to see if there are any special areas that need to be filled after light sanding. Since plastic is not as straight as metal, there probably is little need to correct anything other than ensuring repairs are not visible. No craters or deep scratches allowed!


+++++
FWIW: I've been using a body filler sold by Eastwood. Also their compatible glazing putty that can be mixed with the yellowish body filler to add spreadability to the concoction. I'm disappointed with these products. I find the body filler is very thick when mixed and taken from the can and smeared on a mixing board. Adding a very small amount of blue hardener and blending the two to get rid of all marbling for a consistent past provides a stiff mixer that has a very short working time. Within a minute the spreadability is almost gone. Within 3 minutes it can't be worked.

Since this is chemical, I can't believe that my warm humid climate is shortening the work time. I am thinking there is a better more spreadable product that will be easier to apply and most importantly cure in 30 minutes so that it will sand easily--without gumming up your paper. Using the glazing putty with hardener is worse in the working time and it is terrible to sand.

If anyone has used Evercoat Rage or Ultra, I'd like to learn about your experience with the product.

Bill

"Dedicated to keeping the classic Pontiac engine alive."

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